I hope everyone who wants to be on permanent DST experiences an eternity of the first day of spring forward, never rested again
Who could be for keeping that around?
some people (not me) complain about the sun going down at 4pm.
People in the Nordic countries have it way worse. There’s no excuse.
It’s not like it’s the same time for waking up, going to bed, or shops opening for everyone across the world.
If you still need a heads-up about when things are happening when you travel, we may as well just make time UTC globally.
Sune goes down at 4pm? Just wake up and go to work early.Me, I do - but I also don’t think we should switch back and forth; just keep DST. Who the fuck cares if it’s dark at 5:30am, we are meant to be asleep at that time
RFK Jr recommends sun lamps during the non-savings hours. Particularly on the arsehole.
I’m pretty sure RFK sleeps under sun lamps, that’s why he looks the way he does.
It’s because he’s cold blooded
I’m so tired of listening to this. Twice a year for my entire life. Let it go people
🫵 10,000 years in the penis explosion chamber
I agree with you. I actually like the change. Not a fan of Bush 2 lengthening DST since it gets out of sync with other countries.
Glad you like it bitch.
- with love the people that are about to die at the next change in your honor.
WTF?!?
Yeah, quit trying to fix things! Leave shitty decisions from the past alone!
don’t let trump see this. he will add two extra DST switches per year and rename it
Make daylight great again
Well they don’t call it Donald Savings Trump for nothing. What better way to honor the god emperor than sacrificing time itself in his name?
(I gagged a bit just typing this, I’m sorry)
Daylight Saving Time just needs to be completely eradicated, it makes no sense in the modern day. The problem is that you have this disagreement over “which” time should be the default, either standard time or daylight time (which Canada/the US spend more of the year in than not).
IMO it should just be standard time, emphasis on the word “standard”. If you want more daylight hours in the evening for events and such, just start things an hour earlier.
Fun fact: in the mid '70s the US attempted to go to full year daylight savings time. It was so hated by everyone that we switched back to switching our clocks after very few years
Go into detail about what the problems were and why everyone hated it.
People with school aged children were upset that their children were leaving for school in the dark.
People had more accidents in the morning (but accidents in the afternoon and evening hours decreased, especially pedestrian fatalities.
They didn’t even try it out for a prolonged period of time and a lot of that had to do with the Watergate scandal and the Nixon presidency.
Also the health benefits of switching to Standard time and doing away with DST would work with permanent DST too. The major health problems that are caused by the current model have to do with altering the bodies internal clock, and you get the benefits of not having to change regardless of whether we choose permant Standard time or permanent DST.
For reference purposes, car accidents spike significantly after DST ends, not just when it starts.
I think the main issue with their attempt in the 70’s is that they didn’t try to change the hours of school and work to make things more workable. We didn’t do that because it would have forced major industries to shift things and that seemed like too much work.
This would make things safer in general and fix sleep deprevation and other sleep related maladies in the vast majority of people who aren’t morning people.
And having more natural light during the waking hours decreases the amount of electricity used, can decrease heating and cooling bills, etc.
People complain about the idea (either moving permanent to standard time or morning permanently to DST) literally based on vibes. Nobody seems to give it a chance with actual changes to make it work for any length of time.
I’m also going to point out that a lot of the problem full stop is that Americans just do not have significant amounts of free time.
I wasn’t actually alive at the time, thanks for those details! I didn’t know why they hated it, just that they must have to have switched back so fast.
Yeah, I also wasn’t alive (I know most of it from my parents and the internet, but I’ve also had this conversation on the other place before.
I get the reasons why people like one or the other. I wake up at 3 am for work 5 days a week and I work 10 hour days so my feelings on the matter will be skewed no matter what, but it always seems like a majority of people want to go to standard DST when it’s a hypothetical and there’s not a good general consensus for why they switch back if it is tried.
I believe Mexico (might be another South American country), did have it and they swapped back due to the “health benefits” but it seems like a lot of the studies around day lights savings time as a whole are relying on supposition and don’t have a long term study for the actual effects.
Some studies show more car accidents, some show less, some show nuance. some studies show better or more economical use of utilities like water and rlectro, some show the opposite, or that there is no change.
Some studies show health benefits but those studies assume we don’t change sleeping schedules and so on to accommodate/ take advantage of more light, and often the health detriments are based on swapping back and forth twice a year.
Most of this comment I made after reading more articles on it rather than going off memory from the last time I had this conversation, and so what I say here may not necessarily match up with what’s in the original comment.
If I remember I’ll try to go back up and change that comment to better reflect the new info.
People have serious health effects because of DST, too
https://publichealth.jhu.edu/2023/7-things-to-know-about-daylight-saving-time
You should read more into this. The detrimental health effects aren’t linked to going permantly to DST, but from switching back and forth between DST and standard time.
It seems to be worse to spring forward, is the point. It doesn’t align with the most prevalent circadian rhythm in humans, although there are exceptions. I guess those people are just sol regardless, which is regrettable.
Because a single news story about a single child being hit by a car on the walk to school was blown out of proportion and played on everyone’s fears. Kids don’t walk to school anymore.
Kids don’t walk to school anymore
What am I passing when I drive home every afternoon? Geese?
my wife and i only have one car because y’know poverty and i drive her to and from work once or twice a week because it’s nice. we’re going to start calling any pedestrian children Geese now because of you I love it.
Well if it is in the afternoon then you are seeing them walk home from school.
You are passing what’s called “an anecdotal argument”.
OP didn’t back up their assertion with data. They don’t see kids; I do see kids. It’s all anecdotal.
Quick searching shows a CDC survey from 2017 estimating that a little over 15% of American kids walk to school. More recent data would require more time to find than I have right now, but even if it’s as low as 1 in 10 now, that’s still not nothing.
I’m sure everyone’s bosses will be accommodating
It’s so they can make more money more people die because of time changes, anyway.
Abolish bosses
Non-starter, according to DST sickos they need that extra hour of daylight to be at a higher number on the clock because of all the stuff they do. As if they weren’t sitting on their asses on the couch 99% of the time either way.
Nah, it’s about outside time. Not being in my garden, on my porch, or just outside in general because it’s dark at 5pm is depressing.
Then get up an hour earlier. I personally can’t relate to feeling depressed because it’s dark out, like a bird having a blanket put over its cage, but I do enjoy the longer, cooler evenings with less UV.
No. Mornings feel like being on the wrong side of the sun.
Just change your circadian rhythms to match morning people’s. Also do cocaine
I’d love an alarm clock that only wakes you once the sun has crossed the meridian, like how navies used to only change the calendar day once they’d turned the glass and struck the bell at high noon.
I don’t need the sun to come up at 4:30 in the morning during the summer, and I am a pretty skilled runner. I’m just not a morning person.
Then don’t be. It doesn’t change the fact that it’s completely arbitrary when you get up.
They could just say school and business hour is at 8 instead of 9 from an arbitrary date and have the same effect.
I wish I got to set the schedule to everything in my life
You could just make the numbers be whatever you want if that’s what you need to feel good about the time.
Again, I don’t get to set my own schedule, they’re determined by these numbers that while arbitrary, are rigid. Drop a kid off an hour late to school every day and have fun explaining that to a truancy officer, or tell your boss you’re leaving work an hour early to catch some sunlight and see how that goes.
So drop them off at the same time, but just call it 8 instead of 7. Or is it more important to force everyone else to be on the same arbitrary number as you?
People rarely have their bleary eyed shit together before 9am anyway, best save the sun time for off hours.
Hospital and factory workers first shift usually starts at 6:00-7:00.
To work indoors.
I don’t know, last time I had a barbecue at 5am no one showed up.
Permanent DST would be so stupid.
What is “noon” or “solar noon” under DST? Solar noon is supposed to be the time when the sun is at its peak. AM and PM come from ante meridiem and post meridiem, which are basically “before the sun’s peak” and “after the sun’s peak”. But, under DST the peak is at approx 1pm. So, will saying “I’ll meet you at noon” still mean 12pm? Probably, but then “solar noon” will be 1pm but “noon” will be 12am?
If the whole reason behind considering permanent DST that they think the 9-5 schedule of office life is impossible to change? This just reminds me of bad software projects where office politics and middle manager interference meant that rather than fixing the root cause, it was easier just to add tech debt.
This just reminds me of bad software projects where office politics and middle manager interference meant that rather than fixing the root cause, it was easier just to add tech debt.
That’s why we have been continuing to change clocks twice a year, because apparently that’s easier than changing the time children go to school.
If you’re only argument is “the sun should be directly up at noon” then we are going to need a lot more time zones.
Let’s have a lot more time zones then.
No, let’s do away with all time zones, everyone’s on GMT. Noon stops meaning 12:00 and just means when the sun is directly up in your time zone.
If that means for you noon is 2AM, you start work at 11PM and are off at 7AM, usually going to bed at 1PM when it’s well and dark out so be it. You don’t have to change your clock when you travel, places just say “Local noon is 8PM”.
No, let’s do away with all currency, everyone’s on gold. $1 stops meaning 100 cents and just means whatever the hell it does in the area you’re in.
Ask the railroads how not having time zones turned out.
I’m not only argument.
I also prefer solar noon, but standard time is close enough, and I already said I’m fine with splitting the difference.
Yeah, arguing definitions vs what’s actually practical is a new one for me in the DST discussion. Just goes to show you that people would rather appear right than do what’s useful.
Nobody schedules things around solar noon you psycho.
Old timey western shootouts. You shoot each other at high noon not waning noon.
DST is best T.
It’s also dependent on where you live. Someone living on the easternmost part of a time zone is going to tend to want DST over standard as compared to someone living on the westernmost part. I live in the easternmost part of the Eastern US time zone and I’d pick DST if I had the choice.
East Coast, standard time please.
“East Coast” doesn’t provide enough information. If you look at a map of America and draw a straight line south from the western end of Massachusetts, it doesn’t really touch another state at all, just the ocean. What really needs to happen is that the Northeast needs to be in a different time zone, and then we stick to standard time. But as it is now, it really sucks being in EST in the winter in the northeast, which is why so many of us prefer permanent DST, when given the choice without the option of being in a different time zone.
4:30 sunrise in June just feels wrong to me.
Tbf, 5:00 sunset on standard time is not ideal for me either. But a lot more acceptable than having to suddenly adjust sleep because capitalists want to make more money.
The more I think about it, 8 am sunrise if we did permanent DST in late Dec/early January would be shit too. We should just split the difference, lol
I’m okay with that!
You get used it it. Somehow the majority of the world where DST isn’t observed has no problem with an earlier sunrise. Makes it easier to be a “morning” person, if anything.
Makes it easier to be a “morning” person, if anything.
Morning people already get enough perks. Why do I want to help those judgemental pricks?
Because if you want to help them, you give them DST, so the sun can rise an hour into their day. DST literally delays the progress of morning and makes more of it, it makes you get up an hour earlier in the morning.
Arizona is used to it. When I drove through in July I swear the sun es already high at 4
As someone who lived in a country with DST and now living in a country without it, it’s honestly such a pleasure never having to worry about losing or gaining an hour at an arbitrary time of the year.
As someone who hangs out online with people who don’t do DST, it’s really annoying to have to re-learn each-other’s schedules twice a year. Although that’s nowhere near as bad as when I lived in a country with DST and worked with people in the southern hemisphere who also did DST. It would mean that at some times of the year, 9am for us was 5pm for them, so a short meeting was fine. But, other times 9am was 7pm. And then there were the weeks where 9am was 6pm because one side had gone DST and the other side hadn’t yet ended it.
Even worse, the logs system at the company timestamped everything in silicon valley wall-clock time, so there were 3 different time zones at play, which all changed at different times.
Really, I think eventually we’ll all be on some kind of global time system. So, if I say the meeting is at stardate 1230.2 nobody has to convert to their own local clock.
UTC is a thing, commonly used by people who play Eve Online
Yeah, but it’s not widely used by anyone other than computer geeks. Not surprised that there’s a big crossover between computer geeks and spreadsheet pilots.
And military. Yeah, that’s pretty accurate.
The military uses UTC? Not for regular timekeeping I’m guessing.
Military and IT are overrepresented in EVE.
I love daylight savings. I count the minutes until it returns. I think it should be permanent, for health reasons.
People who know about that than you do say you’re wrong, and what’s more important, I say your opinion isn’t valid, so that’s pretty much putting it to bed there.
You must be a morning person.
I’m not, I hate mornings.
How can anyone not love a long walk as the sun rises? Dawn is excellent and it’s only rival for best time is dusk.
This reinforces permanent standard time. I’d rather have kids going to school with the sunrise than hanging around waiting for the bus in the darkness an hour before sunrise.
Ok, then we change when school is
Good idea, and then let’s start cutting cake into twice as many slices so we can eat twice as much. In reality we should stay on Standard time and school should also start an hour later anyway, because that has also been proven to increase schoolkids’ quality of life.
That’s because you’re a hateful person with no joy in your life.
No u
It absolutely doesn’t matter. What matters is not changing.
The research is in, permanent standard time is healthier.
They are morons. Because the day didn’t change, only the marker did. So stupid.
Who are you saying are morons here? The doubters or the sleep experts?
The sleep “experts”. Complete bullshit. They could say changing the time causes an issue, but this shift daylight earlier is complete bullshit.
- Because daylight is constantly changing. Millions of people will get nearly an hour more daylight this month alone, because thats the way the earth works. It is rapid increase in the spring, and rapid decrease in the fall.
- Time is artificial. Call it 3 in morning, call it 10 in the morning. It doesn’t matter. A person can get up when ever they want. Their rhythm can dictate it, not the clock.
Morons.
Pick one or the other, but don’t change the time. Either choice is equally as good, there is NO difference.
Think of this way, it’s healthier to rise with the sun. That’s how we’ve evolved for billions of years.
It’s unhealthy to rise an hour before the sun. It’s unnatural.
Call it 3 in morning, call it 10 in the morning.
??? It’s not what we call it. It’s when the sun actually rises. Like it or not we’ve arranged our society to start at 8 am (or 9 am in some places), so no we can’t get up whenever we want.
And you do understand our circadian rythyms are connected to the sun right? The sun dictates our rhythms, not the other way around.
Think of this way, it’s healthier to rise with the sun.
Lots of places don’t have sun at all, or have little sun in the winter. People cannot get up with the sun. Again, the earth is constantly changing what that means, and also varies alot based on where you live.
Like it or not we’ve arranged our society to start at 8 am
No. No we haven’t. People do things at all hours. Also, see the point above.
And you do understand our circadian rythyms are connected to the sun right? The sun dictates our rhythms, not the other way around.
Ok, so get up when that happens if you want. It has NOTHING to do with the arbitrary time we assign to a clock. The day does NOT care what number we assign to it.
Lots of places don’t have sun at all,
So your argument is that because extremes exist, fuck everyone on the planet? Like what kind of logic is that?
eople do things at all hours.
So your argument is that because
extremesvariations exist, fuck everyone on the planet? Like what kind of logic is that?Ok, so get up when that happens if you want.
What? Like I said, we’ve arranged our society around 8 am. The vast vast vast vast vast majority of people have no choice in the matter.
Honestly I’m not sure you understand that we have (had?) aligned our time schedule to the sun. Daylight savings shifts that time schedule to be OUT of schedule to our sun. Yes the numbers themselves are arbitrary, but we have (had?) actually sceduled it to align with the sun. And it is daylight savings that wants to shift that so that we effectively have to get up an hour earlier because work/school starts at 8 am and doesn’t change.
Good odds they’re only asking day shift.
What kind of response is that? Night shift workers are a miniscule minority and fucked either way anyway.
Evening/swing shift.
Same response. Like what are you thinking? Fuck over 99% of people for 1%? Correction the 1% is still fucked either way. So it’s fuck over everyone for no particular reason.
I honestly don’t care if we choose permanent standard time or DST. Either one would be better than having to switch twice a year. I’ll even propose a compromise: we can try one for a year, try the other for the next year, and see which one works better.
Not doing either because we can’t agree on which one should be permanent seems like the worst option.
In the us your state can choose to do standard time anytimeiit wants. Daylight savings time is allowed in summer only so it is a federal issues and thus much harder to get passed.
I say we just split the middle. Change the clock by 30 minutes instead of an hour and then just keep it there.
I live so far up north that in the winter the sun rises around noon and sets two hours later.
I literally could not care less which time zone I’m in, the position of the sun has zero effect on my life.
We really should just move to permanent standard time, and judging by some of the opinions to the contrary that I’m seeing in this thread, everyone who hates that should either be given a dispensation to move their work shift and bed time back an hour or be placed on a psychiatric hold.
everyone who hates that should either be given a dispensation to move their work shift and bed time back an hour or be placed on a psychiatric hold.
Isn’t the reverse just as true for people who hate being on DST permanently?
No, because their opinion, in differing from mine, is objectively incorrect.
Didnt they try it back in the 70s and everyone freaked out so much they reverted within a year?
They went the other way and went full savings time.
A sensational story sabbatoged it.
Saving
This again.
It’s like this comes up every 6 months. Good thing we have a robust economy and world peace so we can fuck around with subjects like this.
There’s a button for that
Go on
Some traditions are simply stupid and should be discarded.
This is one example.
Let’s call it by it’s proper name: Daylight Stealing Time
Jetlag time.
My friends dad died of a heart attack like 2 days we sprang forward for daylight savings time. Apparently there is a statistical correlation with increased heart attacks during this time likely due to the lost hour of sleep. I’m sure he would have eventually died of a heart attack because of his lifestyle, but I’m quite convinced it was a part of what caused it to happen on that day.
Great, with scientific evidence backing this we are fucked for ever getting this changed. What we really need is a rising passively racist influencer to get behind the idea to get any support in 2026.
Yep, we’ll probably increase it to 6x a year in retaliation for those eggheads trying to tell us what to do. That’ll show’em.
Better yet hopefully we can get a child rapist or two to support ending dst then Trump will mandate it via executive order
“The Hyperborean Medical Association recommends an end to DST as Vril and testosterone are both depressed if noon isn’t at 12:00 on the equinox”
I’ve also heard from a very reliable source that when children have their sleep disrupted by an hour they are more likely to turn gay.
