Hi from Israel. Elections were today. Preliminary results show a very strong possibility for change. It’s still up in the air, but yes, voting can fix things!
It’s still up in the air
It’s not. The genocide will continue nearly unabated regardless. The best case scenario on the table is it goes back to the pre-2023 status quo of a slower genocide.
The best case scenario on the table is it goes back to the pre-2023 status quo of a slower genocide.
…
Isn’t that preferable, though?
Preferable, yes, sufficient, no. The primary factor that limits Israel’s genocide, which also has the potential to stop it entirely, is not domestic opposition but foreign resistance, economically and militarily.
I guess that depends on the outcome. Everyone was kinda ignoring the slow genocide. (just a few) Things started happening internationally when the quick one began.
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Protests, boycotts and strikes.
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Well I’m sure you’re contributing more to the cause
Israel losing global support is the most import thing to happen against Israel and provided the best ever chance of freedom for Palestine.
Israeli politicians are either Hitler, Super Hitler, or Mega Hitler. Wild to claim the elections will fix much.
Was going to make this comment. What’s the new guy going to do different, exactly?
Elections were today. Preliminary results show a very strong possibility for change.
Which Israeli political party opposes the genocide in Palestine, again?
Both main candidates want ‘Greater Israel’
The opposition is generally a lot softer on Palestine issue. Democrats (8 seats) and Arab parties (19 seats) have very good policies.
Generally the center opposition parties have “reasonable” policies, Together (12 seats) is moderate and Yashar (21 seats) more or less “keep current status but remove some settlements and don’t add new”.
The change from ethnic cleansing and genocide as a policy/talking point is a pretty major shift and governing parties are projected to get 53 seats out of 120.
Coalition agreements are going to be pretty tough but there’s hope for a centre left block with Arab parties since a lot of things that are good for Palestinians are also generally economically good policies. This is a stark contrast to working with ultra orthodox parties which cost the state a lot of issues.
If I take a shower, that won’t suddenly make me attractive to girls. And yet, if I don’t take a shower, my stench will make me unattractive to girls.
On second thoughts, the “why bother voting” crowd would probably struggle with an analogy about taking a shower.
If somebody tells you not to vote, they’re voting for the other guy.
The slightly more nuanced steel man is voting alone doesn’t fix things. I.e vote and take other action
Serbia’s election results happened after almost 2 years of protests including worker strikes
Yeah. Anyone who thinks “vote and everything will be fixed” is just as delusional as the person who says voting doesn’t matter. Serbia did way more than just vote and so far they’ve only voted out the authoritarian leader. They still need to tackle all corruption built up over the years. This is not the end, if anything it’s a start.
“Just” voting would have stopped Trump in both 2016 and 2024. Until the opposite is proven, it is extremely stupid to not vote in 2026 or 2028 in the US from an assumption that voting alone does not work.
And “Just” voting stopped Trump in 2020. But because everyone was happy that Trump got voted out nobody cared to fix the underlying problems that got Trump elected in the first place Trump won again in 2024.
Just voting is not enough. You need to hold your politicians accountable and make sure they represent your interest not the interest of corporations. If you just vote in democrats and a democratic president but you let the establishment democrats continue to serve the corporations that vote is meaningless because your material conditions won’t improve, discontent will continue growing and eventually someone like Trump will be back in office because they have sweet little lies to whisper into the ears of desperate people who will take it into their hearts and vote accordingly.
The proof is right there, you just refuse to see it.
Unfortunatley nuance is lost on the majority of the denizens of the internet, everything is black or white here for the majority of people.
not to speak of how replacing our rulers can not fix the issue of rulership
Because there are massive groups of people on the internet with vested interests in convincing you not to vote (because it helps their allies win).
I don’t see much word about it so I’ll say: “Vote in primaries!” That way when the national elections show up, you’re not stuck with John Fascist and Jane Corporate. Don’t just wait for the big ones; vote for each election you can to make your voice fully heard.
Not to mention that there are more than one race in the ballot. Mine not only has state and county elections, but also municipal propositions.
it honestly feels like a psyop at this point. in russia there was a particular focus on making people “apolitical”, which is a different direction but still was focused on reducing opposition turnout.
I’m just saying, we have the power to start helping economically and socially oppressed people without relying on the government. I’m not asking you to firebomb a Walmart, I’m asking you to hide undocumented immigrants in your house or help them obtain firearms illegally if they require so they can start a militia, those crimes.
and then doesn’t hide undocumented immigrants in your house or help them obtain firearms illegally if they require so they can start a militia.
6 million people versus 350 million…
Voting out fascism never works except for all the times it has like the same fucking guy in 2020
Considering where we are now that doesn’t seem like a great argument.
I hope the Serbians don’t go out to brunch like the Americans did.
Even if you don’t think voting will fix everything, just remember that it won’t -hurt- anything. Just vote.
Alright, then, we should vote for a socialist party, at least in local elections.
yea vote but don’t imagine that beat fascism. serbia and the rest of the world has a lot to achieve for the system to fully change
I would like to remind you the students got sound weapon’d, and there was an undertone of potential violence.
Also, our election system still was working, so not riggable.
There’s a reason why the founders of America excplicitly said that revolution not done peacefully, must be done through force. They knew, no matter how vague, just what sort of calamity was coming, because such things had struck every kingdom and nation before the US.
Unfortunately I don’t think America is really ready for a revolution and I also believe we’re still at a point where voting can genuinely make change.
Half the reason any of this shit is happening is because a black guy got elected president and then a bunch of women, and even some not white people too
The response has been this. It’s fear with a facade of power that you’re seeing.
This is basically why I’m cynical about voting. People will post stuff like this and ignore the 2+ years of street action that got them there.
AKA. I would be a lot more confident going into these USA midterms if my fellow Americans had been going on rowdy strikes the last two years.
But voting doesn’t counter the street action, it’s not a zero sum game. At the very least people should vote for the right people, even if that’s all they do. And if they wanna do more, like protest, then that’s great because it’s really needed. But in the end I’m of the opinion that you can’t complain about how bad it is and then refuse to vote. If you vote and then your candidate is shit, you have a reason to complain. If you vote and it turns out they meddled with it, then you can complain. And obviously you can also complain if half of the country voted for some douchebag. But people who encourage not voting are actively lowering the chances of the right people to win, even in a system where the vote is rigged. The more people vote for change, the harder it is to cover up
But voting doesn’t counter the street action
it does suck the energy out of street action. every time someone is out door-knocking or phone banking, they’re not organizing non-electoral resistance.
Non-electoral resistance usually requires a higher risk tolerance from the individual engaging in it, so not everyone doing door knocking or phone banking would be willing to do what you are thinking anyway.
food-not-bombs, skill-shares, and other community-building is an important facet of resistance, and takes essentially no risk tolerance at all. but every time you grab a clipboard and start collecting signatures, you’re not spending the time building community.
additionally what HalfSalesman@lemmy.world fails to realize is electoral compaigning isnt perfectly safe either, theres recent precedent of a politician putting up campaign signs being sexually assaulted. of political opponents being raided. of voters for whatever opposition party having their name and location information recorded if not openly accessible online for targeting. putting your name on a clipboard is insecure and opens you up to harmful actors, both those who scam you for your time and money and those who hate you because you voted “the other guy”. meanwhile you dont have to put down any name or even have people know who you are for things like FnB, skill shares, mutual aid, etc. and the whole goal of other things like direct action often times is to never even be seen or noticed.
So on voting day you vote, takes like 10 minutes maybe then you’re free to carry on with whatever else. It’s an easy activity that has no downside and you can still do the other things.
And yet it was the voting that worked, not the street action. Strikes, rallies, and everything else like them primarily produce change by convincing people to vote. And for that reason, they are important! Doing those is great, but doing those and not voting and then expecting change is nonsensical.
You are like a child looking at a dinner table, declaring the food is there because you put on the tablecloth
Explain how I’m wrong then. The causal chain was action --> voting --> results; action is important as one of the causes of voting, but if they only did direct action and did not vote, they would not have seen results. Is this incorrect?
The action led to the government having to accede to demands. That the government is elected is not the reason it felt the need to accede to the demands. Without voting the results would still happen. Without action there would be no results.
I didn’t realize they acceded to demands. Perhaps I am not as informed on this topic as I thought. Do you know what demands? Or is there a link with more details somewhere?
Maybe, but people will post stuff about not voting and then also not do 2+ years of street action. So by your logic we should also be cynical about non-voting.
In fact, more people don’t vote than vote, or especially that vote for the person that would do the least amount of harm, so again by your logic it’s even more on the shoulders of non-voters to change something.
I don’t think they are ignoring it. This is a direct response to the people saying voting is pointless. Sure, the years of street action are important but if people didn’t vote then it would just be noise.
