I do not really have a body for this. I was not aware that this is a thing and still feel like this is bs, but maybe there is an actual explanation for HDMI Forum’s decision that I am missing.
The HDMI forum blow goats, every month, by the silvery light of the moon.
this is not new, but its time for the hdmi forum to fade into irrelevance
Fuck you HDMI Forum
💸 (and control) is the reason.
If you want change you got to direct your comments to the HDMI forum. Here we can talk about it forever and if they never see anything they won’t change. I sent the following email to: admin@hdmiforum.org
Dear HDMI Forum,
I was recently saw the news that the HDMI forum was blocking open source implementations of the HDMI 2.1 specifications and I want to express that I really believe this is a bad idea. I hope the HDMI Forum will consider allowing it. I can’t say I understand what the concern is or the reason for blocking it but I really doubt that whatever issue is envisioned will actually come to fruition, instead I believe that allowing open source implementations will be beneficial for adoption of the standard and since if I understand correctly the licensing fees are based on hardware sold so having open source code will of course not exempt anyone from HDMI licensing rules.
Thank you so much for your consideration,
(Name)
Maybe it’s not perfect (I already wished I worded one sentence better) but I think what matters most is just trying your best and using your voice whenever you can.
I’m at the point where I think it would be easier to switch to display port
I can’t find TVs with display port, probably because of “big HDMI”. :(
Fun fact: DisplayPort can carry hdmi signals. So you can connect a cheap cable with DP on one end and HDMI on the other. The only catch is it goes DP->HDMI, not the other way around.
Hilariously this is the easiest way to get HDMI-CEC support on a (Linux) PC
That’s very good to know… I need to do some cable shopping.
Also beware using such cables with early problematic DP1.2 implementations. The display can behave strangely sometimes.
maybe there is an actual explanation for HDMI Forum’s decision that I am missing.
HDMI has never been an open standard (to the best of my understanding anyway). You’ve always needed to be an adopter or a member of HDMI forum to get the latest (or future) specs. So it’s not like they’ve just rejected a new idea. The rejection is fully consistent with their entire history of keeping the latest versions on lockdown.
Standards organizations like HDMI Forum look like a monolith from the outside (like “they should explain their thinking here”) but really they are loosely coupled amalgamations of hundreds of companies, all of whom are working hard to make sure that (a) their patents are (and remain) essential, and that (b) nothing mandatory in a new version of the standard threatens their business. Think of it more like the UN General Assembly than a unified group of participants. Their likely isn’t a unified thinking other than that many Forum members are also participants in the patent licensing pool, so giving away something for which they collect royalties is just not a normal thought. Like… they’re not gonna give something away without getting something in return.
I was a member of HDMI Forum for a brief while. Standards bodies like tihs are a bit of a weird world where motivations are often quite opaque.
Thanks for sharing these insights.
HDMI has never been an open standard (to the best of my understanding anyway). You’ve always needed to be an adopter or a member of HDMI forum to get the latest (or future) specs. So it’s not like they’ve just rejected a new idea.
Okay not publishing the spec is still the same, but something else is new nonetheless.
AMD is an adopter*, they have the spec and they implemented a driver for 2.1 intended to be open sourced in Linux. But they were still blocked from publishing it. For HDMI 1.4 that wasn’t an issue yet from what I’ve found (though it’s always hard to search for non-existence). Open source implementations of HDMI 1.4, even in hardware description languages, seem to exist.
*you can search for “ADVANCED MICRO DEVICES” here to confirm for yourself
I may have misread or misunderstood the article, but it seemed as though Steam wanted to open source their 2.1 implementation, which would effectively publish the 2.1 specification. I’m pretty sure their agreements with HDMI Forum and HDMI.org prohibit that.
Translation: Nothing’s happening until someone needs to get bribed.
/s
Is this really your point or are you being sarcastic? Pick one
Left to the imagination of the reader
You want companies to stop supporting and using your shitty standard? Because that is how you get customers ntonstop using your standard and by extension, your companies
Be a shame if it leaked on the internet.
It probably already has been, and Steam likely already has the specification. They just can’t open source an HDMI 2.1 implementation without consequences.
I’m going to guess it would require kernel support, but certainly graphics card driver support. AMD and Intel not so difficult, just patch and recompile; NVIDIA’s binary blob ha ha fat chance. Stick it in a repo somewhere outside of the zone of copyright control, add it to your package manager, boom, done.
I bet it’s not even much code. A struct or two that map the contents of the 2.1 handshake, and an extension to a switch statement that says what to do if it comes down the wire.
nvidia has HDMI 2.1 last I checked.
They can do it because their driver (even nvidia “open”) is a proprietary blob
nouveau? Switch between drivers if you wanna use HDMI 2.1 or proprietary nvidia when you wanna game! It won’t make any sense, but it will piss off the right people :D
let’s make usb and displayport open-source drivers. seriously!
How good and capable are DP to HDMI adapters?
Can we just do display port then?
displayport is starting to appear on some higher end tvs
Can you name or link some models? I’d like to consider my options but haven’t found any yet.
Off the top of my head, Hisense does dp over usbc on the u8q series of TVs.
Sounds good to me
Time to kill HDMI with USB 4/TB bring those cost way down.
Normalize USB-c with screws and we have a deal.
But are we talking the type with a single screw above the port or two screws either side of the port?
HDMI does not have screws.
With cinema camera accessories, we have these “locking” USB C plugs. They have these notches that help stay in the port. I say it’s about 2.5x more firm and doesn’t wiggle much.
Like the old USB micros sort of?
I think the micro B had hooks on them? Are you talking about that? The USB C plugs I’m referring to had these dimples on the skinny side and the bumps are in the port.
Yeah that’s what I’m thinking of.
Yeah, it’s a pretty bad connector.
Display Port would be better suited to do all of those things.
Usb-c supports DisplayPort! Long live open standards!
Except DisplayPort has high data transfer speed requirements and many cables that fit the nice reversible ports do not support it.
Source: me testing every cable at home to find one that supports DP + PD
We really do need better cable identification standards for usb-c. Like electrical and cat cables have had this better addressed for a while now.
are USB-C ports that do display using displayport standards to do it anyway?
Yes, they do. You just need a fitting cable, which supports the bandwidth.
Be a damn shame if someone leaked the driver.
Or even better, drop HDMI support in favor of displayport
I’m wondering if Valve might just include a DP to HDMI cable for the Steam Machine - since it includes DP.
Not sure it’s economically viable for device makers to drop HDMI altogether since TVs will never do that
If they sell 2 variants of the Steam Machine, they could remove HDMI from one , and just put it in the more expensive variant, to reflect the extra headaches and cost that comes from HDMI.
That’d encourage people to get screens with DisplayPort. Many computer screens have DP.
HDMI -> DP might be viable, since DP is ‘simpler’.
Supporting HDMI means supporting a whole pile of bullshit, however - lots of handshakes. The ‘HDMI splitters’ that you can get on eg. Alibaba (which also defeat HDCP) are active, powered things, and tend to get a bit expensive for high resolution / refresh.
Steam Machine is already been closely inspected for price. Adding a fifty dollar dongle into the package is probably out of the question, especially a ‘spec non-compliant’ one.
Let’s start messing up these fuckers…
I wish we just fuck HDMI group and switch to open standard display port but we are not control of TV manufactures cause they are who crested HDMI group
Who makes up the HDMI Forum?
Meanwhile, at the Legion of Doom…
The council.
Yes, this isn’t new but it’s resurfacing thanks to the Steam Machine. Basically (off my memory), part of your title is accurate: AMD did create a FOSS driver with HDMI 2.1 which does not violate HDMI forum requirements, but the HDMI forum still vetoed it. I don’t know if it would necessarily “disclose the specification” as the first part of your title suggests, but I dig into the details enough to say for certain.
Basically a dick move by HDMI. Maybe Valve can push their weight on this, we’ll see.
I quoted the link. I do not have more insights.
