Would be funny to use HolyC instead
This is (also) about C++.
So, you could have programmed happily in php for 30 years, or jump on the new bandwagon every other year? compelling argument.
One does not program happily in PHP
While the language has improved over the years, I’ve personally never seen a PHP codebase that made me happy.
Or, if you spin it another way: you could’ve picked up the skills to develop for and support various frameworks, or get stuck in a rut for 30 years with just a single antiquated server-side language.
You realize that the language evolved over the years and it’s not even close to the same language it was 15 years ago?
The fact that you also mix frameworks and languages also tells me that you have no idea what you’re talking about
If its so antiquated why is it still used? For a lot of things its perfectly fine. Even this vulnerability is just a case of run the update command for your package manager.
It’s still used because momentum is a powerful factor. That doesn’t make PHP better, but it can make it a more expedient choice.
PHP is a preprocessor that grew too big for its britches. It’s a monolithic monster that runs only one thread per request in an interpreter. It works well enough if you need to manage the data of an internet forum, but it becomes increasingly unsuitable as the task’s complexity grows. If you need threading or background tasks, or if scalability is important, PHP is not it; just read any number of Nextcloud vs OpenCloud comparisons.
“one thread per request” , “interpreter”
(Looks confusingly) That’s JS and Python as well
PS: being obtuse on purpose, but PHP lends itself well to typical requirements of web hosting and you can always call out to a diff process if needed
Fair, but a lot of sites don’t need anything more complex than an internet forum, often less than even that.
And if everything had moved to one of those, almost surely there would also be similar impacts in a similar cve to point at to say “we should be using something else!”
When I was a wee high school kid, asp.net was windows only back then and getting cheap windows hosting was harder than it was getting cheap linux hosting, so I focused on PHP more.
I haven’t touched it in forever, but its probably still good, right?It’s good
Asp.net is a bit old hat these days, but Blazor is pretty cool, though personally I don’t know many people that use it. .Net is very much good now though.
Learn asp.net? Bro, are you still running edge in IE mode in the 20’s?
Ruby on rails? That was a recommendation in like 06. /sardonic
I am not defending php, but it can serve a purpose. Surprised they didn’t mention perl.
Also surpised they are comparing PHP to JS. That’s comparing cattle farming to cooking a burger.
asp.net is listed in the meme as 2002, and Ruby on Rails as 2004
As for PHP vs JS, depending on your needs they can serve largely similar purposes. Both dynamically construct the page, one just does it server side while the other does it client side and can keep running and responding to what the user is doing without page reloads.
Surprised they didn’t mention perl.
That’s because Perl pre-dates PHP and was one of the languages that inspired it. You’d have to rewrite the whole meme.
Agreed, they should hit a goto 10 line. /being silly
Your point is quite valid.
So glad to see that Python finally made it big in 2022
It’s thanks to Django and Flask paving the way in 2003 and 2010 respectively.
Python was an even bigger mess in 2022 than it was in 2010. The version control hellscape intensifies with the more things there are to have version incompatibilities with.
I have lots of experience with node and a little with python.
Python seems great for working with large data sets and I really like jupyter notebooks. The available libraries are really great.
However, the thought of installing a Python CLI app makes me twitchy.
I suspect that node has all the same problems and that I’m used to working around them, but all the Python environment stuff is a nightmare.
The available libraries are the ONLY excuse for Python.
When you need tools more sophisticated (and labor intense) than your tool to make your tool functional, it’s time to re-examine your choice of toolchain.
Yeah, Python as a language is a mess IMO. We used it for making a electrical simulator and the language is…bad. The variable scoping, lack of explicit variable declaration, backwards comprehension syntax, the VERY CONFUSING object orientation design, that classes aren’t serializable by default, package story and deployment… It really has very little going for it, and combine all that with the awful performance characteristics it’s just…no.
Today I’m “Rust if it fits, if not Rust then C#”. We re-wrote the simulator in C# and performance was 70x better and the code got shorter, the deployment was hell of a lot easier since we went AOT and it just builds a native binary for the target platform. No virtual environment crap.
Python is very opinionated. I like it (other than the stupid ternary operator) but I can very much see why others don’t. (At the same time I will fight for it. It’s like the GNOME of programming languages.)
I will fight for it. It’s like the GNOME of programming languages.
For some reason this brings the image of dwarf tossing to mind…
Yeah, the fact that so much of the language is conventions as well doesn’t help. The type hinting is fairly poor as well, but then again type hinting is basically admitting that dynamic typing is a mistake (which it is).
Python environment/packaging sucks, but at least the language itself doesn’t.
It’s fine actually, all of the problemswith python packaging and env are overblown to insane degree.
I used to work at a place that used Jython (which never got updated to Python 3, BTW) and was responsible for trying to keep that shit working even as various libraries started dropping Python 2 support.
I still get a thousand-yard stare when I think about it.
(Still worth it vs. writing actual Java code, though.)
yeah everyone elses experience is invalid.
Npm/yarn are absolute horseshit.
See? Node is just as bad as Python now.
Yep, they are.
Just recently there was an article here, where a person claimed that recommended python tooling is inadequate because they needes to read two paragraphs of documentation. Endemic problem really.
I learned basic programming in BASIC in the 80s. Back then when you needed more speed, you grafted in assembly calls, and the speed difference was dramatic.
Straight Python feels as slow as BASIC - it’s got nifty speedy library calls to stuff written in other languages, but if you need something that’s not available in a library, now you’re writing a library function for Python, in another language, and why not just write the whole thing in that other language and ditch the heavy toolchain?
Yeah, absolute nightmare of writing
pipx install programname.iykyk
Just stand up a VM to do it in, so you don’t corrupt anything else you made in python that you also want to run on the same box, amirite?
A venv isn’t a vm
A venv is still a container to setup, configure, more environment to manange.
My preference is for an app that runs without all that, something I can build, link and distribute as a single executable file which runs when it runs and doesn’t leave a pile of (usually highly disorganized) infrastructure to untangle when we’re done with it. Yes, of course a venv done well helps with that - except when they’re done by the average piker.
Python is great for standalone scripts/CLIs with standard system dependencies. For actual apps you want venvs, probably managed by uv these days.
I’ve written 1000s of python CLIs/scripts over the years, typically wrapping APIs for otherwise shitty enterprise and SaaS software (also many one-off scripts for ETL).
Nowadays, AI writes these scripts in a fraction of the time (and reads the shitty API docs / otherwise figures it out) and my CLI toolkit is better than ever (with $0 ongoing cost). Calling MCPs from CLIs is also interesting, as some vendors never had usable APIs before now.
uv is a fantastic tool if you didn’t know
Also missing: React Node.js Vue.js Spring boot Ajax jQuery Probably like 15 others I’m forgetting
jQuery still won’t die eh?
As much as I hate php, JavaScript is an equal pile of shit when it comes to languages.
it is just much faster to write… I wish IDEs started automatically expanding
$()into document.getElementsByClass and such
Knockout js bro
BackboneJS, MarionetteJS
Fuck me, if my choice is between five flavours of Javascript, I’d rather use PHP. I’m developing a QML application and having to work around that abomination that the clinically insane want to call “arrays” in Javascript makes me want to fucking die.
Node is the only JS framework out of these that could 1:1 replace PHP, Vue.js, jQuery and Ajax (aka vanilla JS) are all clientside which PHP doesn’t do at all, Bootstrap is a CSS library and Spring is Java. That said, clientside JS is usually an anti-user mess and both you and the user are usually better off not using it at all.
Would rust have prevented this? 🤣
Time traveler: Moves a chair
The resulting timeline: PHP is dead for good. However, after some vibe coding caused massive errors in the ADSF framework (that replaced PHP), people are running to vibecode a fix, only to that cause another issue.
Oh my gosh if I could time travel and prevent generative AI from happening I would do it so fast. Although I do want to keep the academic and medical usage domains of AI. 🤔 HMM.
Need to go back and convince Alan Turing to change his test.
I bet AI could help you invent a time machine!
“well…it’s too late now”
Why is that written on an Office Space screenshot? That doesn’t make any sense. It’s not even close to anything said in that scene.
Why do people insist on shoving memes into everything? Did they not think their post was good enough on its own?
Memes are funny because its a reference to a thing we both know and thus an inside joke elevated by that fact.
Modern ones are either that, or kind of just “heres a funny picture with text thats kind of funny next to this picture”
How does the picture make it funnier here?
I don’t think I’ll ever understand the affinity for it. It’s the Internet equivalent of that annoying kid in middle school who couldn’t have a conversation without quoting The Simpsons or South Park lol
Meh; a lot of those guys were my friends.
Have you ever heard of the phrase “a picture says a thousand word”?
Memes became a thing at a time when even emojis weren’t even a thing; though smilies were present, it was too cumbersome and not mainstream. At that same time “personalized content” was only a capitalist wet dream. Most people watched the same selected channels thus creating a “mono culture”.
Then phones with image sharing, widespread internet, and a bunch of other things became widespread enough that we needed way to quickly express complex emotions without both us and the other partner needing to know obscure name of that emotion/feeling. And that’s how memes became so popular.
Nowadays, we no longer have that same mono culture. So only memes we have today, are the ones became viral on the internet.
Sorry for the lecture…
The words aren’t even the same tone of the original. The image isn’t being used to convey an idea, it’s just…there.
It’s losing it’s meaning over time, probably because the movies not being watched by “new” people very much. If you take out the movie context that made the meme he looks like he could be saying the text and I guess that’s good enough for people.
It’s like someone using a word they heard before but don’t entirely understand.
PHP is dead, learn Brainfuck
Brainfuck? You need our Lord and savior, HolyC
Perl + Mason
I’m out of the loop what’s up with PHP this time?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PHP2Shell
This, I’m guessing. A couple of new high impact vulnerabilities.
A remote code execution exploit in PHP was discovered. Many websites around the world decided to shut down until it got patched.
It’s one of the most severe security incidents of this week.
… so far!
The prophecy predicts there will be exactly four major cyber incidents this week.
4 is the key. Literally.
It’s one of the most severe security incidents of this week.
I love this sentence so much!
Damn I can’t believe I missed that.
I saw the eMuhdra one but missed this. Gotta start my rss feed project again and start getting news.
Just don’t use PHP for it!
Now that ASP.net is multi-platform, it should really be rotated through that list a second time, preferably around 2024.
Seriously, it makes Java look like nothing has happened with it since 2008.
