Hey, it can work, I’ve installed Mint for my father. Thrown him in head first!
And I’m not sure if he realized he’s not running Windows anymore.
Arch taught me how to fuck my computer and now its my main squeeze.
Unironically, I don’t get how anyone lives with something like Arch.
Do you guys have to reinstall the OS every few months? How do you deal with the accumulation of crap and weird settings over years?
I tried Fedora and I found even that was annoying because you’ve got 50 different
servicedandservicectlthings to manage, which all have their own implicitly managed state, and some require committing changes through custom CLIs to update them (I have more than once forgot to push my boot settings — whatever that’s called, I’m a noob and was following guides).I don’t think I can go back from NixOS and immutable distros. I really like that it’s hard to forget my firewall has an open port for service xyz, because the port is defined in a nix file with the service configuration.
I’m not saying the arch way or standard Linux way is wrong, not at all. It’s just incredibly not something I enjoy and it makes me feel not confident about the state of my computer.
Did this comment come from 2002? Everything literally just works. My arch box feels as stable as my Debian servers. Computers are fun again. I can’t choose my player color on Spellmasons, thats the one issue I have run into.
Same. Debian servers, CachyOS work laptop. Stuff just works and whatever doesn’t work, i can ask gemini to find, summarise and help solve in minutes.
Do you guys have to reinstall the OS every few months? How do you deal with the accumulation of crap and weird settings over years?
???
I switch on the computer after work, play some games, browse some stuff, maybe configure some program or whatever. Switch computer off and sleep.
Maybe once every month or so I run the update and it just works.
What breaking and crap accumulation fantasy do you live in? Do you not throw the trash at home or something? Just use your daily driver as you would use something normal and no weird stuff happens.
Oh, oooooh, you use Nix. You are the kind of person that can’t live with their computer without tweaking it nonstop. It’s people like you that break non immutable systems lmao.
'Cause no other computer will let you
touchit, let alonesudoit.sudo touch me nowit’s like nobody even knows about
fingeranymoreunzip; strip; touch; finger; grep; mount; fsck; more; yes; fsck; fsck; umount; sleepGood thing too, it’s not secure. Lots of germs transmit by
fingering.
Since architectural is a thing, arch really isn’t that hard to install or use, but these days I favor nixos for the reproducibility.
What’s architectural? I tried looking it up but didn’t find anything.
Trial by fire
Went to a family-run Indian place in Cornwall looking for vindaloo, but the guy talked me down to a madras. Good thing cuz it was right on the edge of my tolerance level. I couldn’t have eaten their vindaloo.
Goat vindaloo 👌
Worked out for me🤷♂️
Like going to Japanese restaurant and asking for a whole plate of pistachio ice cream
Watched an older relative of mine once stick his finger in the blob on his plate and eat a big ‘ol chunk of it thinking it was avocado. We thought he was done for
You go in there to learn. I think many know this before entering. And if they didn’t plan ahead; then it’s a happy accident.
Oh hey Dan Hurd!
But Arch doesn’t use Hurd.
So, where is Dan Hurd going there, and will he find gold again?
This isn’t what I expected on this com
Trick question. He always finds gold.
Not always. Sometimes he is looking for gemstones. And he has been to Sierra Gordo (or whatever the name of that abandoned Galena mine is).
Mint, Fedora, Pop_OS!..these are good distros to start on. Some people start and end on these.
CachyOS, Arch, Manjaro…these are not what you throw at a newbie.
I think it really depends on the person (and a few other “luck” factors). Like, if they are truly generically computer savvy enthusiasts, they might actually have better luck on an Arch derivative. I’ve seen hardware compatibility issues plague a machine until it got Arch on it - sometimes that bleeding edge has what you need already and you don’t have to hunt for it.
I still like the play of suggesting new people download every distro that piques their curiosity, put them all on thumb drives, and spend a weekend giving them a go. But, if they aren’t willing to do that, then throw Mint or Bazzite at them and hope all their hardware just works because they probably don’t fit into the category above.
Except Manjaro. I feel like at least 70% of the Arch family hate is actually Manjaro’s fault. I’m glad it works for some people and they can use and enjoy it, but I just don’t have the faith in it to recommend it.
A new distro every day… that was me last year when switching over to Linux
Fedora for my desktop, cachy on my portable is what stuck around, debian for all the homelab stuff
Get them some nix
I found Cachy to be a nice intro to Arch based distros, things worked well out of the box
Around 3 years ago I switched to Arch from Ubuntu(22.04) after 2-3 months of being a new user to Linux because I read that Arch was one of the best distros for setting up a custom system for tiling window managers. I was already testing i3wm on Ubuntu and I was ready to make i3wm my main desktop, so decided to take the Arch route. It really did feel like a jump into the dark even though I wasn’t completely new.
For a moment I hated not knowing anything but after a few bruises I ended up learning enough things to be comfortable, and learning other non Linux topics by inertia. It was totally worth it, although I would tell my younger self to take it much slower.
I’ve been working on Linux since '96. As time goes by I keep drifting more and more towards boring and stable distributions. I just don’t want to be bothered with a system that needs me ro groom it constantly.
Same for me. I clearly separate my “experiemental” machines from my “just works” machines now.
My laptop runs LMDE, my servers are mostly Debian 13, a handful of Ubuntu Server in there. My gaming rig is Nobara Linux, which is just Glorious Egg roll’s gaming-optimized Fedora build. When I first set it up a few years ago, I had everything all customized, themes, fonts, icons, fancy desktop/window effects, etc.
I actually considered just going with something vanilla recently, not because I have had any major issues with my current set up, but just because I don’t feel like tinkering with it anymore.
My tinkering desire has shifted more and more towards server/enterprise infrastructure and DevOps automation.
I’m older now, my career has taken off, and with that comes more responsibilities and mental energy required during the workday, then family obligations through the week/month, etc. I find myself with less time and mental energy to just tinker and play with tech. So when I do find myself with a bit of free time, I want to maximize it and work on stuff that both helps with my actual career, and helps me get more stuff self-hosted for myself and my family.
Way back in college, I used to spend more time tweaking my PC’s overclock than actually gaming xD
100%, I already gave a job and hobbies thanks.
All roads lead to Debian Stable.
I use arch because it is the boring but stable system. Rolling release means you just keep updating it and it works forever rather than having to do big bang upgrades between LTS versions that always break something
Nah. It just means that the breaking updates could surprise you at any time.
With a LTS version upgrade, I can plan for the potentially breaking updates. I can set aside time when my schedule is free to do the big update and work through any potential bullshit. It won’t interrupt my work.
But in a rolling release, you’re still going to get that same breaking update … but with no warning this time. It might come at a crucial time when you’re trying to get other work done, forcing you to stop your more important work and fix your computer first.
And that’s not even counting the number of breaking updates. A relatively ‘bleeding edge’ rolling release distro like Arch is going to include much newer software versions that haven’t gone through as much real-world testing and bug reporting as the stale old packages in a LTS release. The price you pay for more updated software is that it’s less thoroughly tested software and more likely to include undiscovered, unfixed bugs.
By the time the same package update finally makes it to some stable LTS distro, more of the bugs have been discovered, reported, and hopefully fixed … before you ever even see it.
(Not to say that nobody should run cutting-edge rolling release distros. I’m glad you guys are out there. You’re the ones reporting those bugs that end up getting fixed before it makes it into the LTS version. If everybody was running LTS stuff, it would lose that advantage because nobody would be testing things before they make it to the LTS.)
Overall, I think cutting-edge rolling release is fine for a computer that doesn’t really matter, like a gaming PC. (And you’ll probably get a gaming performance boost from having the latest and greatest versions of things.)
But for an essential computer that you need for doing important things, a LTS stable release is the way to go 100%.
The thing is … I kind of agree with both takes.
I have been using Arch since ~2013 back when I still had time to mess around with it and learn the ins and outs, these days I work as a sysadmin so I want my systems at home to mostly “just work”, however Arch also is that Distro for me for the most part. Most of the times I actually encountered breaking changes it was because of my process not breeing quite refined. For example I didn’t regularly update my config files, so when there were changes in the PAM config syntax my login was borked, so now I check for .pacnew files on every update and sometimes I have to move over some changes. I also don’t update as often but just when I have a few minutes while I’m using my machines.
So in short I consider Arch to be a valid option for a Stable Desktop OS (if you take some precautions and don’t mess with it too much).
However for servers etc. I do usually go with Debian because the packages are usually simply a bit more matured and I do major version updates as you described (explicitly setting aside some time to possibly fix arising issues).
It just means that the breaking updates could surprise you at any time.
I keep hearing this but in my roughly 20 years of running Arch that’s happened no more than a handful of times. And usually because I missed an announcement. I don’t know what y’all are doing to your systems but Arch has been incredibly solid for me.
And complete distro version upgrades like with CentOS/Debian have always been such a fucking massive hassle. And CentOS often deprecates hardware shit I need which of course I never find out until after I run the update and the shit won’t ever boot again.
You can write a whole essay of theory, but my experience is running several arch devices for years and years with no problems and having ubuntu distro upgrades break so badly I just reinstall completely every single time.
Another hiccup is that LTS are not actually running stable packages. They are running Frankenstein versions of packages with backports that are not supported by the project maintainers, because the software has to be maintained for security if nothing else.
Lol. You guys write pacman -Syu into your .bashrc or what?
So I’m assuming you’re the type who says it’s on the user to carefully review all package updates before running the update (rather than running updates automatically)? And therefore the user’s fault if something breaks in an update?
Yeah … no. Ain’t nobody (who has a job and/or a life) got time for that. My computer isn’t a hobby, it’s a tool. And, as much as possible, I want my tool to ‘just work’. And I certainly don’t want to spend more time than necessary maintaining it. So I’ll stick with a distro where the work of vetting updates and making sure they don’t break anything has already been done by someone else – a distro where I can just run updates automatically in the background (if I choose) without any significant worry that it will interrupt my workflow in any way.
So you went on assuming and responding to your assumptions. Yeah… no. Have a good day
Well you didn’t give me much else to go on, had to fill it in with assumptions.
Since you seem to consider automating updates an absurd proposition, what else am I supposed to think?
I asked a general question. You know, the one that only requires “yes” or “no” as an answer. When doing that, I am not expecting you to think anything about me
Back to the topic at hand: absurd is not automatic updates, but your foolish thinking (I would have said “illogical”, but failing to follow logic and breaking its rules are differen things), now demomnstrated twice in a row. So, if that is how you want to manage your computer - well, on the second thought who am I to save you from trouble
Also, pkgbuildis by far the simplest package build system I’ve ever encountered. That’s why aur is so prolific, though troublesome
I have installations reaching 10 years. It just works when you don’t have to worry about “upgrades”. Best choice of my life.
this
you can just choose to use software that isn’t dev/nightly versions, and you’re fine
unless you want to see stuff break… then you install all of the nightly versions and have stuff break sometimes!
Yep.
In 2002, I used Gentoo.
In 2026, I use Kubuntu.
(I should probably switch since Canonical’s policies are increasingly bothering me, but meh, I can’t be bothered to reinstall more than once a decade.)
24.04 will be my last ubuntu lts. 26 doubling down on snap for system level packages, yea no that’s enough of that. I too was a gentoo lunatic in the early 2000s and will likely head back in that direction.
Ah, thanks for the warning. My install has been badgering me to upgrade because my (non-LTS) version just stopped getting security updates. I ought to get off my ass and switch distros.
What is your position on getting extended updates via a free account on their ‘pro’ program? That’s what i did when i didn’t want to leave 16.04 lts
Bleh, I don’t want to keep running old software, either. If they’re making the newer versions worse then it’s time to ditch them for someone who’s not doing that.
Don’t get me wrong, I’ve been procrastinating about upgrading for a few weeks, but that isn’t the same as staying on the same version for years.
This was me!
2002 - - Gentoo
2026 - - Xubuntu
And I ALSO just found out how bad Canonical’s policies have gotten and I’m also considering switching but it just seems like a lot :: le sigh::
I’ve used Debian since 2001 or so. I reinstall whenever I have a new computer, unless I’m decommissioning another computer at the same time.
Debian since the year after you, but I reinstall with every new version. Mostly just cuz it’s a great excuse to ‘start fresh’ with just the applications I want and to get the ‘new computer experience’. Totally unnecessary, but nice anyways.
I should probably switch since Canonical’s policies are increasingly bothering me, but meh, I can’t be bothered to reinstall more than once a decade.
Just like me, for real!
Polishing dotfiles is a valid hobby, and can be fun now and then, but when I need to do actual work I reach for my debian laptop.
that reminds me. i need to commit and push my latest vimrc.
Surely you need to make a cron job to do this on changes? 😅
imho that’s kinda why i went ios for my phone. i dev in linux, deal with robotics, hardware, signals, “security” and whatnot to get paid. i just want something that works.
Nowadays you dont even have to use iOS/android to get something that just works, GrapheneOS for example also is fully there already (apart from NFC payment but that’s really the only thing)
Eh. You already can’t pair it with your Volkswagen (or was it Volvo? one of those car brands), a lot of Banks won’t fuck with it and just won’t let you use their app or website, and Google is actively trying to kill it off (whether they’ve said it out loud yet or not, it’s happening). I’ll be interested to see where it is in the next few years, hope it manages to keep going and all, but I am much more personally invested in a properly working Linux mobile option that works on a modern phone with all of the modern amenities.
Both my banks work (one local, one international) and both my cars work (Volvo and Audi)
GrapheneOS for example also is fully there already
There are some caveats to that. You do have to jump through some hoops to for instance get RCS working. I think it is worth it to feel like I’m actually in control of my device, and I would even recommend it to friends and family that I’m willing to play tech support for, but I can’t truthfully say I would recommend it to an arbitrary non technical person
You used to have to jump through hoops for RCS, now it’s a toggle, they’ve come a long way with that
That is true. The fact you have to even do that is a lot for some people though. There are other things as well such as wifi calling and visual voicemail not working out of the box for all carriers.
