I’m considering the switch to GrapheneOS, so I watched this interview with one of the members of the GrapheneOS team, and honestly, I feel it was a great general introduction to it and touched on common features and misconceptions.
For those who don’t know, it’s one of the most secure and private mobile operating systems out there. Some things that I took away:
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They touched upon MAC randomization. I researched a bit on my own about what the need for it is. Apparently, it’s standard practice to randomize MAC addresses when scanning WiFi connections. However, GrapheneOS (and Pixel firmware) are even better at this, as they make sure they don’t leak any other identifiers when doing so. They also allow you to get a new random MAC for every connection that you make (not sure whether this is very useful, as this can cause problems). On a related note, even when WiFi/Bluetooth are “off,” stock Android can still scan in the background to improve location accuracy (by matching visible networks/devices against Google’s database). So basically, even with WiFi/Bluetooth off, Google still knows where you are. In GrapheneOS, this option is off by default.
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They have their own reverse proxies that they use to talk to Google on your behalf when needed.
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Apparently, in the USA you can be compelled to provide a fingerprint or Face ID. Courts have ruled this doesn’t violate the 5th Amendment because it’s physical, not testimonial. BUT you cannot be compelled to provide a password/PIN. That’s considered testimonial evidence, protected by the 5th Amendment. GrapheneOS has a two-factor system where, after using your fingerprint, you still need to enter a PIN, so it helps with this. They also have a BFU state after reboot, which is the safest and requires you to enter your full passphrase.
grapheneOS is a great system, it’s a shame about the absurd accusations made against eOS and iodé. On the other hand, the biggest problem with grapheneOS is its exclusivity: it only works on certain Pixel models, which are very difficult to find and expensive. Here in South America, it’s very difficult to find a Pixel, not to mention that they’re prohibitively expensive. But I suppose if you need that level of security, you’ll pay whatever it takes.
They also have a duress PIN.
My only problem with GrapheneOS is the lead developer.
What’s wrong with the lead developer?
Paranoid and has some outburst from time to time. Dude does some amazing work though.
For point 1, you can choose the MAC privacy settings on a per-connection basis. For example, my MAC is randomized periodically on all connections except my home network, where I use my device MAC.
2 months GOS user here on Pixel 9. So far so good. You do have a lot more controls over the traditional Android phones. In fact, you have too much that for average user, i think it can be a bit overwhelmed.
PROFILES
For eg, you can easily install Google apps and use them like a normal phone. Problem is on Graphene, you have many ways to set this up. You can:
a) install in your main profile and be done
b) install Gapps in main the private space within main profile
c) some crazy stuff like install Gapps in the private space of a secondary profile, which you lock using a completely different password.
I spent too much time in this loop lol. Finally i settle on: all daily apps in main profile and sensitive apps live in a separate profile (banks, important docs).
SECURITY
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Next the security features in GOS are amazing. You can control every single permissions that an app can do. I mean every thing including the system Phone app. I can go 100% paranoid and prevent the Phone app from Phone logs, microphone and Phone. Essentially making the Phone app useless… Very very nice but you need to experiment with your apps and see which permisions you can deny and which you cant. On normal Android? You can deny some apps but the system ones, you cant.
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I especially like the USB c feature. I leave mine on Charge only. So the port only functions to charge my phone. This cuts off every other connections: plug into PC, plug into car for Android Auto…etc. I like it that way. .
Btw, Android auto works great too if you need it. .
OS is so minimal that you will need to install essential apps on your own. For eg, i use Florisboard for keyboard, MiX for file manager.
- I really like the screenlock options on GOS. You can set:
a) your usual password, pin, fingerprint
AND
b) a secondary pin that can be scrambled at random. So you unlock with your fingerprint then you need to enter that 2nd pin or password to enter the phone. EVERY single time. And it is scrambled too so you dont have to worry about people tracing your fingers.
AND
c) the Duress pin. This is like the nuke PIN. You set this up and hypothetically you are in a dangerous situations (thieves want you to unlock, local police abuse your phones…etc), you can enter this instead of your normal screen lock pin/password and every data is nuked. I havent tried it yet because i spent too much time set my phone rhe way I like it lol. If somebody tries it out, pls let me know.
INSTALLATIONS
Stupidly easy. On the OG Pixel, if you want to install LineageOS, you have to be very careful. Beside downloading the ROM, you need to flash a custom recovery like TWRP. Then becaude it is a Pixel, you nees to be careful which slot to flash the ROM. Flashing to the wrong one will brick the phone.
On Graphene? It is literally plug your phone in and open the browser where the install notes are. The ONLy technical thing I need to do during the process waa enable bootloader unlock. Everything else was like “GOS finishes this, GOS finishes that, can you press this button, GOS is rebooting…”. .Very very simple.
**SOME HELPFUL POINTS (i hope) **
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dont treat this as a Degoogle phone. .You can but the strong point of GOS is security.
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some features are not available compare to like.Samsung’s ONE UI . For eg, only allows an app to connect to 5G and not wifi.
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dont create a super complicate setup. The backup process will a pain.
Thanks for taking the time to share
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Even the iPhone can handle the bully tactics with cops. Simply attempt to shut down the phone. You don’t have to follow through, pulling up the shutdown slider is enough. It will require a password to unlock after that.
Also, if you press the power button 5 times on iPhone it does a hard lock requiring the passcode to unlock.
That’s cool and all. But I just want a working Linux phone to use as a daily driver. That doesn’t require constant fiddling and is made with modern, powerful, hardware.
Keep an eye out for what people say about Jolla’s next phone, when it’s out sometime next year.
I’ve been using Grapheme on a Pixel 8 Pro for about 6 months it’s been an adventure. There are so many options to lock stuff down but when you try full lock down some apps don’t work and the error messages they throw don’t say much so you in harden one thing at a time to make them work. This is not a phone you can just throw your SIM in and expect it to be just like your old phone.
I do feel pretty confident with this phone on a Cabe SIM but you do need to commit.
What is a Cabe SIM?
I told you I will switch to Graphene OS, you don’t have to sell it to me.
- Mac randomization is also on ios
- Apple provides an ip hiding proxy service
- ios has BFU where biometric is disabled. And holding power button disables biometric unlock. And nothing is better than just having biometric unlock turned off.
- Apple also collects a massive amount of data on their users. But thats ok apparently as long as they just say “trust me bro”.
Does iOS also provide:
- Duress password?
- Scrambled PIN input layout?
- Storage scopes?
- Contacts scope?
- Full permission control on Apple apps like their app store?
- Hardened segregation of profiles?
- Fully controllable sandboxing?
Honest questions. I don’t use anything Apple, but have used GrapheneOS for years.
mostly the answer is no. it has the same permission controls for apple’s own apps as third-party apps, but ofc graphene has a couple more options there too. filesystem access is limited to the file picker and the app’s own data directory, which i assume is a tiny bit more restrictive to the user than storage scopes. the scope concept also exists for contacts, pictures, health, and maybe a few other things. user profiles don’t exist on iphones; i think they might on ipads but i don’t have one. sandboxes are pretty locked down but not controllable by the user. then there’s “lockdown mode” which disables a whole bunch of shit and is supposed to harden your phone to highly-motivated/funded attackers
Yeah, thanks. The more I research and ask knowledgeable Apple users, the more I’m convinced that if GOS did not exist I would either move to iPhone or just get a dumb phone for calls and rely on Linux computers for everything else. In Android, everything outside GOS is worse than stock android, let that sink in 😕
How’s Graphene OS as a daily driver?
Is switching to GrapheneOS reversible?
I was wondering whether it affects warranty or hinders seeking service if there’s any problem in the phone.
it is 100% reversibile on pixels made so far and since it’s only available for pixels…
Edit: Afaik there are no warranty issues if you flash stock rom before, which might make it harder if your hardware fails.
The only thing I missed when switching to GrapheneOS from Android was Google Pay, and that wasn’t that big of a loss.
I just got a phone case that holds my debit card in the back and turned off NFC.
Yeah, as they said most banking apps now work, however, Google Pay doesn’t.
There are alternatives to it like curve pay but I haven’t done the research whether they’re trustworthy enough. EU company I think.
I tried to set up Curve on my pixel 7 with graphene os and it wouldnt let me create an account. After filling in my contact details the app just said “We are unable to verify your identity” even though it never even asked me to show ID (I never reached that screen).
When i emailed Curve customer support (which is terrible btw, theres about 2 months between replies) they just said things like “We cannot offer you an account at this time” and “We were unable to verify your identity” and “We are unable to disclose the reason for denial for security reasons”.
I’m not sure if graphene os had something to do with it.
So just in case if you want to set up Curve maybe create the account first on a non-graphene phone, then log into the app on graphene after the account is already created.
You have to install GrapheneOS’ Google Play (sandboxed) and services for banking and government apps. And you can install Google Play with stock Graphene, it is very easy.
In my country everything is built around this 2FA app that requires Google Play Services. But a phone with GrapheneOS and sandboxed google play should be better in total than just running stock android I guess? I wish I didn’t need google play services, but currently I do.
Yes. The top comment says Google Pay, not Google Play. The sandboxed play API has worked well for me personally.
The threat level for google play services is different in graphene as it runs in what they call an “appbox,” which basically means Google Play is just another app that’s sandboxed like everything else.
Would there be any benefit in running google play services in a private space, or does the sandboxing already provide that separation?
I don’t think so. From what I gathered, the only thing Play Services can see on GrapheneOS is the list of other apps you have installed. That’s it. They can’t see anything else unless you grant access to it. You’re not giving Google root access to your phone, you’re just installing an app that happens to be made by Google, and it’s locked down like everything else.
the only bad thing about graphene is that it needs an expensive pixel. and how they are mostly unobtanium.
Wait? They are unobtainable now? What happened?
i’m not sure what the problem is, but they are crazy expensive and hard to find in south america, and probably many other places.
I got a pixel 9a for 370 euro in Sweden, which isn’t too bad. You can get a good refurbished 7 for less and it will have support for years to come.
i don’t live on sweden though.
How much is a refurbished pixel 8a in your country?
i quickly looked it up and found used 9s, and it’s about 5k.
could probably find better prices for a working one, but there won’t be any miracles.
also found a 7 pro with a broken screen for 2k, kind of a steal for how much these go for tbh
but still, it’s a broken phone for 2k and i don’t think these screens are cheap either.
The pro versions will be much more expensive than the “a” models (like 9a, 8a, 7a, etc), if you can find an “a”-phone, it will be cheaper. I would get at least an 8a, since they have support until 2030 or something like that, the 7a has support until 2027. The 6a is the oldest one which still has support, but only for a year or so more iirc.
they don’t sell here, so i rely on luck somewhat to find specific models in the used market from someone that paid the big price to import it. and usually people want to get their money’s worth so they are mostly all chewed up, very old and deprecated, or unaffordable.
i debate investing on an old pixel to get a more private phone every time i need a new one, but so far always decided it’s not worth the amount of money they want for them. i keep hoping for other manufacturers to adopt the more thorough pixel security, or for graphene to relax it’s requirements a bit.
Ah! I didn’t know they didn’t sell there, that changes things.
Just doing some TP math for you.
A xiamoi Redmi something something is about 130€. A pixel 8a is 370€ or a 9a 500€.
With the xiaomi, you are getting no security updates for more than a year. For a pixel 8a, you get 6 years and 7 with the 9a. Therefore, if you want to keep your phone up to date because your Banking app needs those to work, you are looking at about 65/71€ per year. Also, if you want to keep it longer, you can use it for longer, with the build quality and a battery change up to 10 years or so.
Also, anecdotally, those cheap phones are built like shit, run like shit, and you are genuinely better off buying a Samsung galaxy S7 and daily driving that. (Which I got when the S10 first came out, and BTW is still holding strong when I need a second phone in case I loose my pixel 7, after 6 years, unlike my huawei P30 which didn’t last a year until it started getting to 100°C when being on, and lagging to the point of being unusable.)
Great summary! Thanks for this! If I were to make the switch to GOS - which I am considering, Samsung user ATM, I’d never travel abroad - especially to and from the US - with my daily GOS driver. I’d travel with a backup phone that contains nothing. A new SIM card and some random chat app for communication with my loved ones. This is for plausible deniability (if I indeed were involved in anti government activism etc) and to avoid all the fuss. Not unlocking my phone gets me into trouble. Wiping my phone gets me into trouble. In that case, I just leave my daily driver at home.
