That’s a pretty blatant misrepresentation of what happened though. This makes it sound like the rioters started the violence on June 2nd forcing a government response, but that’s not the case. The CCP had already declared martial law on May 20th and had mobilised 30 divisions. The PLA was first sent in at that time, but because the protestors blocked them they couldn’t advance into the city and were ordered to wait on the 24th.
On the 1st of June, two individual reports (the Li Peng report and the MMS report) were published within the Politburo, decrying US influences and advocating direct military action. The CCP decided that day that military action would be used against the protestors.
June 2nd saw an incident with a PAP jeep that inflamed tensions. But I can’t personally find a source claiming firebombings and lynchings at this time. The jeep incident was the trigger that made the students believe military action was at hand though. Only on June 3rd did tensions escalate further, when the PLA advanced into the city and clashed with protestors trying to repel them. This is when I can first find the protestors using molotov cocktails and trying to beat soldiers to death, but at the same time the PLA had opened fire with live, expanding ammunition on the protestors (so they certainly weren’t ‘unarmed’). From there it only escalated further of course. So the protestors were fighting in response to the PLA advancing into the city to break up the protest, not the other way around.
Martial law is what mobilized the army, which you falsely claimed happened after protestors started killing unarmed PLA soldiers. I didn’t equivocate it to killings.
Killed for having murdered four protestors. Not so “unarmed” either then. Additionally, those pictures are from June 3rd/4th, which again is after the PLA was ordered to move in and when they started killing protestors if they refused to clear out. Obviously the protestors will attempt to defend themselves against such aggression.
Martial law was declared, and then rioters started killing unarmed PLA officers. This is what prompted the PLA’s response, the violent clashes started after martial law was declared, and rioters started killing officers. Secondly, the source says much of this happened on June 2nd, which backs up the Liberation School article and its sources. Thirdly, the idea that the officer had already murdered 4 people came from the people who killed him, not an outside verified source. In an event where we already know much has been mythologized, this single officer may or may not have been guilty, but was far from the only murdered officer.
Ok so first off, this “source” is a random X account with little credibility, that already admitted in the thread that several images aren’t verified and that much is unknown. I have no idea where they pulled the dates from for example; when looking up these images I can find some other sources for the images for the 3rd and 4th of June, but not for the one supposedly for the 2nd. Meanwhile I can’t find any other sources claiming these “numerous violent clashes” on the 2nd. In fact, most sources claim that only on the 2nd did the protestors come to suspect that the PLA would move in violently, but only did so on the 3rd (prompting retaliation). I can’t find a clear source claiming the violence happened between the 20th and the 24th; only that protestors blocked the PLA from entering the city proper (which didn’t seem to be paired with much violence since the PLA wasn’t ordered to shoot either).
On the 1st of June (so even before any hypothetical lynchings on the 2nd) did the CCP decide to use violence to clear the protests.
You also keep talking about these supposedly unarmed PLA soldiers. You do realize how that makes no sense, right? The PLA is actively mobilised to enforce martial law, and they’re supposed to do so by singing songs or something? Of course they were armed. It’s also the primary source for how the protestors got their weapons; taken from PLA soldiers.
I referenced the liberation news article, and linked the images as a different matter. You were the one that started using it for claims beyond that, and now that the specifics behind the images are in question, you’re deciding to walk that back. You can feel free to check the article and the sources it lists, like I already sent, rather than fixating on a twitter account I referenced for the images.
Well that’s just it isn’t it? The claim that on June 2nd unarmed PLA officers were on the square and were attacked there is also unsourced in that Liberation News article. It’s just mentioned but there’s no footnote present that supports the claim.
And it’s hard to make that make sense. By all accounts, the protestors blocked all access to the square. They did so in the period of the 20th to the 24th (first attempt) and also tried to once the PLA was ordered to use violence when they moved in on the 3rd. So how exactly did this unarmed column of PLA soldiers manage to get there again?
And of course we know that the PLA was armed at that point since the protestors took their weapons (which we have tons of photographs of).
You seem to have quite uncritically bought into the CCP narrative of the events, even if the story presented doesn’t make a whole lot of sense. Eyewitness accounts also dispute the CCP version. To be clear, they don’t dispute that the square itself was cleared (mostly) peacefully, but the events leading up to it and directly after certainly weren’t. And the images of that are quite gruesome, with PLA soldiers firing down streets and using expanding ammunition.
Historians don’t buy the western narrative that claimed tens of thousands died of course, that was horseshit. But the CCP narrative is heavily disputed too. The death toll likely is somewhere between 500 and 2600, based on eyewitness accounts and imagery of the events.
And just to be clear: these protests weren’t universally pro-US. The protestors were highly factionalised, some seeking better relations with the US, but nowhere near all of them did. This factionalism also made it harder to negotiate with them for the CCP, since there wasn’t a clear leader.
(Btw I have no idea what you’re referring to when you said I “walked things back”, as far as I can tell I did no such thing).
That’s a pretty blatant misrepresentation of what happened though. This makes it sound like the rioters started the violence on June 2nd forcing a government response, but that’s not the case. The CCP had already declared martial law on May 20th and had mobilised 30 divisions. The PLA was first sent in at that time, but because the protestors blocked them they couldn’t advance into the city and were ordered to wait on the 24th.
On the 1st of June, two individual reports (the Li Peng report and the MMS report) were published within the Politburo, decrying US influences and advocating direct military action. The CCP decided that day that military action would be used against the protestors.
June 2nd saw an incident with a PAP jeep that inflamed tensions. But I can’t personally find a source claiming firebombings and lynchings at this time. The jeep incident was the trigger that made the students believe military action was at hand though. Only on June 3rd did tensions escalate further, when the PLA advanced into the city and clashed with protestors trying to repel them. This is when I can first find the protestors using molotov cocktails and trying to beat soldiers to death, but at the same time the PLA had opened fire with live, expanding ammunition on the protestors (so they certainly weren’t ‘unarmed’). From there it only escalated further of course. So the protestors were fighting in response to the PLA advancing into the city to break up the protest, not the other way around.
Martial Law is not the same as actual killings, moreover the Liberation News article is well-sourced. As for the killed soldiers, there are pictures of them (NSFL) if you really want to see proof.
Martial law is what mobilized the army, which you falsely claimed happened after protestors started killing unarmed PLA soldiers. I didn’t equivocate it to killings.
And of those killed soldiers, here’s what your own source says: https://xcancel.com/SebasdePeru/status/1533603901508820994#m
Killed for having murdered four protestors. Not so “unarmed” either then. Additionally, those pictures are from June 3rd/4th, which again is after the PLA was ordered to move in and when they started killing protestors if they refused to clear out. Obviously the protestors will attempt to defend themselves against such aggression.
Martial law was declared, and then rioters started killing unarmed PLA officers. This is what prompted the PLA’s response, the violent clashes started after martial law was declared, and rioters started killing officers. Secondly, the source says much of this happened on June 2nd, which backs up the Liberation School article and its sources. Thirdly, the idea that the officer had already murdered 4 people came from the people who killed him, not an outside verified source. In an event where we already know much has been mythologized, this single officer may or may not have been guilty, but was far from the only murdered officer.
Ok so first off, this “source” is a random X account with little credibility, that already admitted in the thread that several images aren’t verified and that much is unknown. I have no idea where they pulled the dates from for example; when looking up these images I can find some other sources for the images for the 3rd and 4th of June, but not for the one supposedly for the 2nd. Meanwhile I can’t find any other sources claiming these “numerous violent clashes” on the 2nd. In fact, most sources claim that only on the 2nd did the protestors come to suspect that the PLA would move in violently, but only did so on the 3rd (prompting retaliation). I can’t find a clear source claiming the violence happened between the 20th and the 24th; only that protestors blocked the PLA from entering the city proper (which didn’t seem to be paired with much violence since the PLA wasn’t ordered to shoot either).
On the 1st of June (so even before any hypothetical lynchings on the 2nd) did the CCP decide to use violence to clear the protests.
You also keep talking about these supposedly unarmed PLA soldiers. You do realize how that makes no sense, right? The PLA is actively mobilised to enforce martial law, and they’re supposed to do so by singing songs or something? Of course they were armed. It’s also the primary source for how the protestors got their weapons; taken from PLA soldiers.
I referenced the liberation news article, and linked the images as a different matter. You were the one that started using it for claims beyond that, and now that the specifics behind the images are in question, you’re deciding to walk that back. You can feel free to check the article and the sources it lists, like I already sent, rather than fixating on a twitter account I referenced for the images.
Well that’s just it isn’t it? The claim that on June 2nd unarmed PLA officers were on the square and were attacked there is also unsourced in that Liberation News article. It’s just mentioned but there’s no footnote present that supports the claim.
And it’s hard to make that make sense. By all accounts, the protestors blocked all access to the square. They did so in the period of the 20th to the 24th (first attempt) and also tried to once the PLA was ordered to use violence when they moved in on the 3rd. So how exactly did this unarmed column of PLA soldiers manage to get there again?
And of course we know that the PLA was armed at that point since the protestors took their weapons (which we have tons of photographs of).
You seem to have quite uncritically bought into the CCP narrative of the events, even if the story presented doesn’t make a whole lot of sense. Eyewitness accounts also dispute the CCP version. To be clear, they don’t dispute that the square itself was cleared (mostly) peacefully, but the events leading up to it and directly after certainly weren’t. And the images of that are quite gruesome, with PLA soldiers firing down streets and using expanding ammunition.
Historians don’t buy the western narrative that claimed tens of thousands died of course, that was horseshit. But the CCP narrative is heavily disputed too. The death toll likely is somewhere between 500 and 2600, based on eyewitness accounts and imagery of the events.
And just to be clear: these protests weren’t universally pro-US. The protestors were highly factionalised, some seeking better relations with the US, but nowhere near all of them did. This factionalism also made it harder to negotiate with them for the CCP, since there wasn’t a clear leader.
(Btw I have no idea what you’re referring to when you said I “walked things back”, as far as I can tell I did no such thing).