“Is an image of some tanks” is the heaviest lifting fucking sentence I’ve seen in a long ass time.
What is the bottom photo?
The lady who got shot in Minneapolis.
Renée Good was her name
Ok.
I gotta admit I chuckled a bit when I saw where this was posted…
Why?
I guess the downvotes know exactly why ^^
Well let’s say tanks are pictured…
There are 457 upvotes.and 93 downvotes at the time of writing. Tanks being pictured isn’t ironic at all, considering this meme is pro-China and anti-US.
Well it’s tankies vs nazis, both authoritarian. I don’t think there’s good guys pictured… Yet the side that drives war tanks are hinted to be good guys… And well we are on lemmy.ml
It’s good for workers to have state authority, rather than capitalists. Both have authority, but communists use it to uplift the people and defeat the Nazis.
I love whenever someone posts the “tank man” photo because the liberals always reveal themselves like roaches scattering across the room when a lightswitch is turned on. Mod ban hammer squish them all plz and thank you.
yeah and it s illegal to talk about iut in china cause the gouvernement did nothing wrong and it’s all just western propaganda. Omg you guys are crazy and delusional
It’s so illegal to talk about that it’s mandatory at university to learn about as part of the mandatory “outline of modern Chinese history” at university.
I’ve never understood why some leftists wanna suck the dick of a superpower authoritarian state. That’s not leftism, you’re just a class traitor who defends the ruling class of a place you don’t even live in. Get some perspective, ffs…
That’s not leftism, you’re just a class traitor who defends the ruling class of a place you don’t even live in.
There’s not one Chinese person here, everyone is American/European white trash in lemmy.
Wtf is this?
authoritarian state
Authoritarian is a meaningless pejorative used by the unintelligent and uneducated to avoid class analysis. Every state exercises coercion. The question is which class benefits. China’s legal system has demonstrably reduced corruption and constrained capital’s excesses in ways other (Western) systems have not. If your ideal “leftism” cannot account for who holds power and how law serves that power, then your ideal is simply fantasy.
No need to bring in misogyny/homophobia. The reason socialists support socialist countries is pretty self-evident, we defend the ruling class in China because the ruling class in China is the working class.
“When examining the events of April through June 1989 in Beijing, there is a vast body of evidence including journalistic records, diplomatic cables, eyewitness accounts, and photographic documentation that directly addresses these claims.
The Death Toll and Use of Force
The claim that “no one died” or that only a few hundred died is contradicted by multiple sources. While the Chinese government’s official figure in 1989 was 241 deaths, other estimates are significantly higher:
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The Chinese Red Cross initially estimated 2,600 deaths (later retracted under government pressure).
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The British Ambassador at the time, Alan Donald, cited a source within the Chinese government estimating as many as 10,000 deaths.
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Foreign Journalists on the ground (from the AP, Reuters, and BBC) documented sustained gunfire and the use of armored personnel carriers against civilians on the roads leading to the square, such as Changan Avenue.
“Tank Man” and the Photos
The iconic “Tank Man” photo was captured by several photographers (including Jeff Widener and Charlie Cole) from the Beijing Hotel.
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The Photo is Authentic: It was shot on film and smuggled out of the country. There is also video footage of the encounter.
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The Outcome: The footage shows the man was not run over; the lead tank attempted to maneuver around him before he was pulled away by bystanders. His identity and ultimate fate remain unknown.
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The Direction of the Tanks: The tanks in the photo were actually moving away from Tiananmen Square, having already cleared it, though this does not negate the violence that occurred during the clearing process the night before.
Education and Information in China
The assertion that the incident is “freely taught” in China is demonstrably false.
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Censorship: The “Great Firewall” actively blocks search terms related to “June 4” or “Tiananmen.”
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Curriculum: The event is absent from textbooks, and public commemoration is strictly prohibited. Every year around the anniversary, security in the square is tightened and social media keywords are heavily scrubbed.
Comparative Incidents
While the United States has a history of state violence against protesters (such as the Kent State shootings in 1970, where 4 students were killed), the scale and the subsequent state response differ fundamentally:
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Scale: The casualties in Beijing involved thousands of troops and heavy armor, resulting in hundreds to thousands of deaths.
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Transparency: Incidents like Kent State are openly taught in American schools, are the subject of public records, and were heavily criticized in contemporary media without state-mandated deletion of the historical record.
Summary of Logic
The claim that “200 died and deserved it” while simultaneously claiming “no one died” is a logical contradiction. Furthermore, the claim that the event is “freely taught” is refuted by the very existence of the intensive digital and physical “Blackout” that occurs in China every June. The evidence confirms that a violent military crackdown occurred, resulting in significant loss of life.”
pretty much comports to what i know. the detractors of this can’t even get their stories straight.
can’t even mention it without the servers dropping players like flies.
People are upvoting slop because the slop regurgitated what they want to hear LMAO.
The system prompt: “You are Adrian Zenz”
It may be helpful to provide a source, because this formatting sort of screams LLM
that statement is in quotes because it is LLM. which is why i had to specify that i have read it and it tracks with my position on the matter.
if the information is deficient then because i have used it to stake my portion then others can take that up with me because it is the position i hold.
the position i hold.
A very brave and important position you have that you need the slop machine to hold it for you and if is not enough others may help.
careful with “AI” psychosis
Okay maybe stop posting slop then
That’s because it is, and that’s the source.
LLM’s are not a source, and i never claimed it was.
just like wikipedia is not a source
‘source’ as in the source of the comment
You just put the LLM output there, if you mean Alan Donald is your source then he’s a liar as I already showed.
LLM slop.
Of the few hundred people that died in the riots and fighting, the square was dispersed peacefully. The truth about Tian’anmen is that hundreds of protestors and PLA officers were killed in Beijing that day as the PLA advanced towards the square, but that the square itself was evacuated peacefully, which matches leaked US cables and the CPC’s official stance on what it calls the “June 4th incident”. This is a rejection of the commonly reported story of 10,000 people being killed on the square itself, which originated from a British diplomat’s cable. Said diplomat was later confirmed to have evacuated well before.
Western nations intentionally sensationalize the quantity of deaths and the character of the events. This is also why Western Nations don’t frequently report on the South Korean Gwang-Ju massacre that occured around the same era, where the South Korean millitary murdered thousands of High School and College students protesting against Chun Do-Hwan’s dictatorship. All of what I said is backed up by the Wikipedia page for Tian’anmen Square Protests and Massacre, such as Alan Donald revising his estimate from 10,000 to the low thousands yet BBC continuing to report the 10,000 figure:
In a disputed cable sent in the aftermath of the events at Tiananmen, British Ambassador Alan Donald initially claimed, based on information from a “good friend” in the State Council of China, that a minimum of 10,000 civilians died,[237] claims which were repeated in a speech by Australian Prime Minister Bob Hawke,[238] but which is an estimated number much higher than other sources provided.[239][240] After the declassification, former student protest leader Feng Congde pointed out that Donald later revised his estimate to 2,700–3,400 deaths.
The truth is that hundreds of rioters and the PLA died that day, but the square was evacuated peacefully. You believe right-wing propagandist slander.
yes it is AI, and even considering its problems, it is very good at collecting information. besides, it is used here as the stake of which I planted as MY position. so if you s have an issue with its contents then you can take that up with me.
your very first rebuttal is an oxymoron, and can be dismissed with your own account.
your second rebuttal can be argued against the same pen. china is known to minimize their weakness with the same veracity it’s enemies would sensationalize them. that is why several sources, including internal ones are used, and the very fact that china silences communication over it and strives to stop its decimation to this day means they do not get to have a say to anyone with any sense over it.
you saying that sources changed their numbers is detrimental to your argument. which was just a repeat of your first point.
None of my rebuttals are oxymorons, so I’m not sure what you mean by that. Secondly, the fact that China disagrees with the west does not mean that the west is correct. I thoroughly debunked your assertions supporting claims by Alan Donald, who fled the scene before the square was dispersed. You aren’t using rhetoric well, and the LLM nonsense is trained on western information and thus is dominated by the propagandist view.
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Westerners aren’t helpless innocents whose minds are injected with atrocity propaganda, science fiction-style; they’re generally smug bourgeois proletarians who intelligently seek out as much racist propaganda as they can get their hands on. This is because it fundamentally makes them feel better about who they are and how they live. The psychic and material costs are rationally worth the benefits. -Roderic Day
All the libs in the comments really living up to the quote.
Lemmitors really didn’t sent their best to this thread.
The Amerikkkan randomly calling me racist while being racist was fun if entirely unproductive. Same with the Canadian settler.
Don’t feel that you need to argue with these racists, because it can lead to burn-out quickly. You can always report them and we’ll try to get to it ASAP.
Also thank you for your hard work in educating everyone. It’s not going to waste, and everyone is learning a lot from your posts. o7
Seconding this, @QinShiHuangsShlong@lemmy.ml’s comments have been fantastic lately, and absolutely aren’t going to waste.
Thank you very glad to hear
Also thank you for your hard work in educating everyone. It’s not going to waste, and everyone is learning a lot from your posts. o7
Thank you always great to hear.
Don’t feel that you need to argue with these racists, because it can lead to burn-out quickly. You can always report them and we’ll try to get to it ASAP.
Yeah definitely I always make sure to report any actual racism etc I see but it is fun to blow off steam arguing with/making fun of them at the same time even if it’s entirely unproductive.
If it helps, it was fun to see you owning them
I just finished reading this article today a few hours ago! it felt like such an eerily perfect dissection of liberals it is incredible impressive, it doesn’t reduce their annoyance but it does provide an easier way to deal with it
Link?
My bad for not linking above, here it is: https://redsails.org/masses-elites-and-rebels
Thanks I’m looking forward to reading later
Yeah ice killed a couple people and we are dealing with that.
The tanks are on their way to kill 2600 unarmed people.
and we are dealing with that.
By throwing dildos at the concentration camps and dancing?
Only a few hundred died, many were armed and murdered PLA officers (kicking off the millitary response), none in the square itself, and the tanks pictured are leaving the square where nobody died.
Only a few hundred died
Dude, you’re saying that as if it’s okay. Hundreds or even thousands die after clearing a protest, how is that ever supposed to place the CCP in a good light?
many were armed and murdered PLA officers (kicking off the millitary response)
Source? Because as far as I can find, the protests were nonviolent until the army was sent in to clear the square. When protestors blocked the army a standoff ensued, which was eventually forcefully broken as per the CCP’s orders. The army was initially sent in because the strikes weren’t ending and the government was not willing to meet the demands.
My favorite fed
Dude, you’re saying that as if it’s okay. Hundreds or even thousands die after clearing a protest, how is that ever supposed to place the CCP in a good light?
There’s a huge difference between “the CPC ran over 10,000 innocent schoolchildren in Tian’anmen square with tanks” and “riots around Beijing resulted in firebombings of PLA vehicles and lynchings of PLA officers, who then responded with force, resulting in a few hundred deaths in total.”
Here’s a pretty good overview. Two days prior to June 4th, unarmed officers were lynched and firebombed in their vehicles. That’s why the PLA was sent in to begin with, which then cascaded into rioters blocking the PLA’s advance and escalations into killings on both sides. It wasn’t an “even fight,” it was the PLA vs. rioters, but even still it was the rioters that struck first, hard.
And both pictures show off firsthand a brutal government dictatorship (in everything but name) that is actively going against the will of its people and stamping down boots on the throats of civilians who dare question or hesitate in the face of their rule.
The protestors in Tian’anmen were a mix of Maoist die-hards upset at Reform and Opening Up, and student protestors backed by the CIA that wanted to liberalize the economy. They didn’t have a consistent goal. Decades later, over 90% of the public in China support their government:
Well they kinda have to or one of those murder vans shows up. A lot of doctors regularly get 100 percent of the vote. That must mean they were beloved dictators?
What on Earth are you talking about?
He is saying a lot of dictators have 100% approval ratings. Misspelled it as doctor.
And the “murder vans” is a reference to execution vans that China uses.
“Yunnan officials authorized the use of execution vans in March 2003 and the province deployed 18 vans in the same year. Zhao Shijie, president of the Yunnan Provincial High Court, said, “The use of lethal injection shows that China’s death penalty system is becoming more civilized and humane”. Amnesty International expressed concern that the use of execution vans could increase the use of executions. The Supreme People’s Court encouraged provinces to adopt execution vans in December 2003.[2]”
There is a lot of activity about the vans being talked about online I am surprised you haven’t heard of this before.
Execution vans aren’t a real thing, though. China does have the death penalty, but not in this comical way, same as PLA suicide helmets. I’ve seen the claim before, but it’s ridiculous to believe them. You can see that the sources in the Wikipedia article don’t even back up what is claimed.
As for the idea that “a lot of dictators have 100% approval ratings,” I don’t see how it matters. Fear of the possibility of something isn’t evidence of it happening.
Because if they didn’t they were disappeared for re-education lol
No? Harvard studied this, it’s because the government consistently delivers on its ambitious promises in uplifting the lives of working people.
You ever see those workplace review things where it turns out almost everyone at the company is super thrilled with management and wouldn’t change a thing?
Or is it only you that can engage in whataboutism?
The pictures still show two shitty controlling governments bringing the boot down on the throats of their citizens who dare to get in their way or stand up for their “rights”
You have a hypothesis with no backing. Back up your hypothesis, or accept that the citizenry of China support it because it works really well and is getting better all the time. Obviously people would change a lot about China, the major difference is that they expect the government to bring about that change, rather than assuming it won’t.
Further, no, the rioters in Beijing were firebombing PLA vehicles and lynching officers before the PLA was sent in. That’s why hundreds died.
Why is this in c/memes?
Here on .ml we can enjoy content past cat videos.
No way…. This is a bridge too far for me
Because the libs in here are walking memes
Because repetition is an effective way of convincing people to accept a narrative, and meme channels tend to be more widely subbed than others.
Both are terrifying in different ways… one is power, the other is chaos up close.
Americans think they know about Tienanmen Square 1989 but somehow don’t know about the Philadelphia police bombing (yes, a literal bombing) a Black residential neighborhood in 1985.
No one talks about the police brutality and violence against anti-Vietnam war groups peacefully exercising their first amendment rights in the 1960s/70s. Veterans who were drafted to fight an immoral war of aggression overseas were then beaten by the police for protesting that war. In 1970, the Ohio national guard opened fire on students protesting the Vietnam war at Kent State.
Eric Garner, Tamir Rice (12 years old), Daniel Shaver, Philando Castile, Breonna Taylor, George Floyd, Renee Good, Alex Pretti and far, far too many people were all murdered on camera. Millions of people protested the routine extrajudicial killings of unarmed Americans. But police killings increased every year during the Biden administration and Trump continues to throw people in the back of unmarked vans.
Anyone who believes the myth of American virtues is propagandized beyond belief. Americans judge the PRC (and every socialist country) by our own retelling of its worst blunder in history; Americans judge the US by it’s latest controversy while forgetting everything else.
I like how this comments sections is ml people fighting with ml people, as well as Chinese nationals fighting with Chinese nationals over what really happend.
i’m not a marxist and most of us aren’t; you should adjust your views to gain a full understanding of what’s happening here.
Cowbee is tankie supreme apparently. All they do is comment Chinese propaganda wherever they can. You won’t be getting through to them unfortunately.
I talk about communist theory and practice. I think “tankie supreme” is a very funny title, lol.
Dang I’m jealous of that title, I wanna be tankie supreme too
I saw a screenshot of someone labelling people “tankie” but cowbee is “tankie influencer” lol
I remember that! Also really funny. My haters are my biggest fans it seems, lol
Just found out I got a sick as hell nickname, totally undeserved but I’ll take it lol
An account existing on Lemmy.ml doesn’t make them a Marxist-Leninist.
I know lol, but it also doesn’t mean anyone who is opposing the meme isn’t one either.
I’ve seen my fair share of educated/intellectual people deny the circumstances of the Bengali genocide for decades until the Pakistani army went lunatic a couple of years ago and confirmed what was previously considered exaggerated fiction.
Tbf though, I’m fairly sure Tankman made it out alive without a scratch, but that overlooks the people who actually died in Tiananmen.
Not that the US is going to fare any better, especially with the empire beginning to crumble.
To be clear, nobody died in Tian’anmen square. The riots happened in various spots throughout Beijing.
The image is misleading, but the CPC itself acknowledged at least 241 deaths. Also, you cannot find information about the incident while in China. Can personally confirm.
The nerve of saying can personally confirm a complete bullshit lmao.
I was referring to blocked articles specifically about the incident on the internet. I did not know about the curated version taught in universities.
I can already picture you going to uni, running into a history class, and screaming about fake news (In english of course lol)
Also, you cannot find information about the incident while in China. Can personally confirm.
Yeah no information, it’s only taught as part of the mandatory “outline of modern Chinese history” at university.
In that link, they refer to it as:
“The 1989 political turmoil and subsidence.”
That is a really weird way to call a massacre, don’t you think?
Please we all know that the Government hides the search results in China if you look for it. Or are you going to deny that?
Like, why lie?
China bans Tiananmen Square-related web search terms https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-18321548
https://www.businessinsider.com/words-china-banned-from-search-engines-after-tiananmen-square-2014-6
Because massacre is poor categorization of what was a violent clash between rioters and the military acting as riot police. Like why pretend to be a leftists when you’re a Canadian settler shitlib. Clearly not very good at categorising things. Also when did I deny their were restrictions around what is a very sensitive event that had western backing? All I said was that it is taught about as part of a mandatory course at university. The idea it’s fully blacked out is western chauvinist fantasy and honestly not even a very creative one. You are not very intelligent are you?
You know there are photos of the dead people right? And videos?
Canadian Seltler shitllib? Hahaha. Cute, friend. You know nothing about me.
Nice that you went and checked my history as to come up with something to side track my points. I am not sure if you are a CCP shill or just brainwashed in propaganda.
Also, you are moving the goal post, friend. You told the guy you responded to that the Tiananmen Square masacre was not censored. It is. That is my point and provided proof that it is and I can do that without lowering to your level of insults. Clearly, I hit a nerve, it is okay Comrade. Be happy.
There is a reason why put a link in Chinese in an English speaking forum without translaltion.
You know there are photos of the dead people right? And videos?
People die when rioters (whose leaders did interviews explaining their plan to incite massive violence and flee to America) clash with the military did I deny that? It was categorically not a massacre.
You know nothing about me.
From replying to you before I know you’re Canadian and a self proclaimed lib thus 90% chance you’re white thus a settler. So taking it all together Canadian settler shitlib.
Nice that you went and checked my history as to come up with something to side track my points. I am not sure if you are a CCP shill or just brainwashed in propaganda.
Again didn’t check your history we’ve simply talked before. Also holy chauvinism really reinforcing the whole settler shitlib. And it’s CPC not CCP.
Also, you are moving the goal post, friend. You told the guy you responded to that the Tiananmen Square masacre was not censored. It is.
Massive twisting of what was said. He said you couldn’t find any information when in fact it is part of the mandatory university course which is all I pointed out.
Again I must ask are you genuinely unintelligent?
You’re a racist Han bigot. Don’t bother relying. I don’t communicate with stupid racists.
I’m not Han lmao. The irony of you making a racist assumption calling me racist. 🤣
You are referring to unarmed protestors against fully armed military, with tanks? LOL, aha. Damn those rioters attacking the military with their own blood, splattered on the square. Those demons!
Not white. You know nothing about me. Keep Shilling, Comrade. Oh, we talked before? Is that so? Oh, fair, but I do not remember you, nor care to know you. It is true that I am a Liberal and I will give you the decency of not being as petty as you, since I do not have to rely on insults when I have facts and sources.
Again, all you have proven is that I hit a nerve. Can’t even take the slightest of critism.
So, here is the difference of the searches that people did even back in the day, noticed the difference between the searches in Chinese VS the ones outside of China. Thus proving OPs and my point.
For anyone to look, like this is nothing new. This is how China would change results on actual internet searches. https://imgur.com/a/vbkFA
The university course on your link is reframed, obviously. That is the whole point on censorship. I can tell by the other curses and the content that a lot of things are reframed as well. Again, there is reason why you posted a Chinese link in an English focused site. We all know how idealogues think.
Anyway, stop lying. That point remains.
Lastly, on this segment of this documentary, Tank Man, these Asian students claim to not even recognize the famous “Tank Man” when asked.
So, either they do not know, which I fully doubt, if you hear what she says, or they do know, which is the case,but do not want to publicly discuss it on camera and risk getting any type of trouble. Take your pick.
From 2008: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xuuddurPLV8&t=86
Rely in common sense comrade. Have a great one, Cheers.
Lastly, on this segment of this documentary, Tank Man, these Asian students claim to not even recognize the famous “Tank Man” when asked.
I genuinely can’t believe a person can be this dumb. Did you ever consider the fact that Tank Man is completely irrelevant for history and it’s only a fucking image for propaganda? Why anyone knows about the image? Because is the image about the square that appears when people talk about the event. This guy is completely irrelevant.
You are referring to unarmed protestors against fully armed military, with tanks? LOL, aha. Damn those rioters attacking the military with their own blood, splattered on the square. Those demons!
They literally immolated and lynched military guards to start the riot. You are extremely fucking arrogant for how little you understand anything.
when I have facts and sources
Lmao. What you actually have is a chauvinist fantasy and an immense arrogance.
Can’t even take the slightest of critism.
you have provided no criticism just a vast misrepresentation of what I said and the events in question.
So, here is the difference of the searches that people did even back in the day, noticed the difference between the searches in Chinese VS the ones outside of China. Thus proving OPs and my point.
Again not what we were talking about he said there was no information implying and perpetuating the nonsense lie that the date/event is scrubbed from history which is factually incorrect in the same way saying Winnie the pooh is banned is factually incorrect.
The university course on your link is reframed, obviously. That is the whole point on censorship. I can tell by the other curses and the content that a lot of things are reframed as well. Again, there is reason why you posted a Chinese link in an English focused site. We all know how idealogues think.
Chauvinism.
Lastly, on this segment of this documentary, Tank Man, these Asian students claim to not even recognize the famous “Tank Man” when asked.
He’s famous because who he is and what he did are completely reframed in the west as some sacrificial martyr jumping Infront of tanks (generally with the implication that he was ran over) whereas in reality he was a random man who wanted the tanks to return to the square and was ushered off by passers by not really a revolutionary figure or particularly relevant to the event as a whole. You people are so insufferably arrogant your vision and imagination must be reality.
Rely in common sense comrade.
“Just believe the western propoganda”. I’m no comrade of yours you Hitlerite settler.
Go get em, Mr. Shlong!
