China is also in the process of their own genocide.
It’s almost like socialism works and US propagandists have been telling us nothing but lies.
For the rest of the world it’s two shit holes fighting over supremacy
the rest of the world
By that do you actually mean the rest of the Western world?
Nah… Legit I think most countries
Travel to both China and the US and say that again. I’ll promise you, you won’t.
2x countries I’d never go to again.
Have you been to both? Or are you just so small minded you believe you know everything almost 2b people and the 2 biggest economies have to offer?
Yes, fuck there’s a lot of Chinese dick sucker’s on Lemmy.
This thread is a testament to the years of china bad slop that white supremacist liberals have been eating.
Major props to all the patient comrades below trying to educate these stubborn klansmen.
Wait, I’m a white supremacist because I don’t want China - or anyone else - to manipulate Tibet or persecute Uygurs? I’m a Klansman because I lean to supporting Taiwan’s independence?
Do, like, MLs just hate everyone? Honestly, why are MLs so extremely hostile to people they don’t 100% agree with?
It’s common for chauvanists to side with the US Empire’s claims about Tibet, Xinjiang, and Taiwan, as well as the framing of these issues. For westerners who utterly lack the background knowledge required to even begin untangling these subjects, to side with the world’s largest Empire against a rising socialist country it has every means and desire to lie about, this teeters into chauvanistic territory. I think anyone trying to get a realistic view of these subjects needs to also explore the Chinese perspective, as well as the global south.
Marxist-Leninists don’t hate everyone, we have a deep love for the working class and a hatred for oppression. The reason MLs can seem hostile is because we have to deal with the same arguments day in, day out, unceasingly. This manifests in frustration, lashing out, etc. It gets increasingly frustrating when Marxist heroes like Marx, Fred Hampton, Che, Frantz Fanon, Walter Rodney, Rosa Luxemburg, etc get passes from liberals due to their martyrdom or dying before being in a position of influence, while liberals follow the US Empire’s line on existing and practicing Marxists, and those who lived long enough to succeed.
That’s very diplomatic, and I appreciate you taking my question seriously. But Dess is a core personality of the Lemmyverse and insulting a huge swathes of people using their platform really puts a lot of distance between the ML community and people they could potentially sway.
Unless MLs aren’t interested in swaying more people to their side and just want to preach to the choir.
I can’t agree with discrediting comrades that don’t hold their tongues for the sake of more civil outreach. I don’t disagree with the point Dessalines is making, even if I personally try to go about things in a less confrontational matter. One thing I’ve noticed is that some people do respond better to “wake-up calls,” so to speak, so I let them go and do my own thing.
As for outreach, I do care, I even made an introductory Marxist-Leninist reading list, I update it frequently, and try to help explain things in simpler ways. I don’t claim to represent all MLs, but education and outreach is a huge part of our role, and our practice.
manipulate Tibet
Was not Tibet having theocracy and serfdom?
Uyghurs
Who were the folk mainly raising the point of Uyghurs tho?
The white supremacist govts who are enabling and engaging in the Genocide in Palestine?Like, for MLs this would seem like anti-vaxx conspiracies, right?
Taiwan’s independence
Both of them are named Republics of China, right?
Their own people also seem to wish for reunification, right? Tho, they obviously seem to have dissimilar opinions on which govt they should come under after unification.to manipulate Tibet or persecute Uygurs
The people selling this false narrative are white supremacists, not the Tibetan or Uyghur people.
I’m a Klansman because I lean to supporting Taiwan’s independence?
Taiwan is pretty much if the US confederates lost the civil war, then escaped to Cuba, killed all the people there, and set up a state. Read about what mass killings the Kuomintang did to the indigenous peoples of Taiwan when they escaped there.
I didn’t make my point clear. I don’t have any strong opinions on these matters I brought up, outside “genocide is bad” and other basic ethics. I’m admitting I don’t know much about them, not due to apathy but due to… just information fucking overload. It’s absurd to equate me with white supremacists just because I can’t keep up with everything going on in the world to exacting detail.
I apologize for being too combative… it just gets exhausting for us to debunk the same points over and over again, especially since the US has a near total monopoly on anglophone media sources.
We should oppose actual genocide, like the one Israel is carrying out on the Palestinian people with US help, not fake ones like the “white genocide” or “uyghur genocide” which are employed against perceived enemies of the white/western world.
Just want to say thank you for understanding :) I absolutely agree about the genocide in Gaza and any invented “white genocide.” But with something like Xinjiang, I don’t think I can make a call about it, you know? I appreciate your understanding that it’s not as clear-cut to everyone about what’s going on in the world. It doesn’t necessarily make me agree or disagree with you, but it absolutely makes want more to be an ally of yours.
No problem, thx!
I def recommend reading about the US’s many campaigns historically to accuse their enemies of doing the thing they themselves are guilty of. A few good ones off the top of my head are Paul Williams - Operation Gladio and William Blum - Killing Hope
I will, got some theory on my reading list as well :)
Not sure if parody or serious
Why do you use the liberal label? I’ve been hearing this “China bad” shit from the right for years
Because the entire US political spectrum fits nearly inside of “neoliberalism”. Liberalism in general is just capitalism+.
I think the world liberal is used… Liberally. I usually equate it in the US political term for left of center (or rather the opposite of conservatives), but I know the entire US political system is hijacked - both “sides” answer to the same overlords
Would’ve been better if real images were used for China
They are real pictures. Here’s another city you’ve never heard of.
Okay I would just upvote and move on, but you’re clearly baiting with that title so if it’s alright with you let’s have some banter :P
If I say that
- the meme is on point
- material conditions in China are to some extent better than the US
- the US is definitely worse to its own people and the world
- I’m staunchly anti-capitalist
but I also say that I still don’t like the Chinese state because I don’t consider that (and ML in general) a form of worker-owned means of production (whether or not you agree)
Am I a “lib”?
the meme is on point
I disagree: they could’ve used real photos instead of AI generated images.
e.g. I looked at a map and picked the first large city I saw that I’ve never heard of, then looked up some images: https://duckduckgo.com/?q=Nanjing%2C+Jiangsu%2C+China&iar=images&t=h_
Pretty sure that’s a toll booth. They widen to allow cars to queue and then narrow back down to transition back to free flowing traffic. It’s not a 50 lane highway merging to 20 lanes, it’s a 20 lane highway widening into a 50 lane queuing area and then merging back to 20 lanes to continue being a highway.
Here’s one in the glorious freedom country:
(Source)
Is this a 20 lane highway merging into a 3 lane bridge?
But yes, China does have a car dependency problem. Something the government has acknowledged and is implementing aggressive policies to combat. From building full metro systems in all major cities in the same time it takes NIMBYs in America to shoot down a single line, to high speed rail, to literally restricting who can drive on what days based on whether you have an odd or even first number on your license plate. What’s America doing? Oh right, doubling down on car dependency and killing what little alternatives there were and calling people who speak out against it “woke.”
that’s a toll booth
Jesus, I hope they’ve installed number plate readers or similar instead since that photo was taken 😅
Imperial core drones in the comments be like
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lol @ that dork who can’t be bothered to read a few paragraphs on Tibet and does the “China bad!” unironically.
They’re also an eco-fascist “leftist,” and just say “all countries are bad” and that “humanity should go extinct.” There’s nothing that seems to be capable of convincing them of being worthy of support.
Clearly the top image is better and more practical, cars are the most versatile form of transport after all.
I gotta give you this one. I had a sensible chuckle. Development in China has been crazy!
Socialism in action, which allows for long-term planning and acheiving societal goals.
I don’t think it’s the socialism, but a competent authoritarian government
It raises hackles any time someone unironically uses the term “authoritarian”, because its always used to demonize the non-white countries, and especially those that were successful in opposing the US imperialist project, which has killed more innocent people than any other empire in world history.
The PRC has not been in a war since its minor skirmish with Vietnam back in the 70s. It’s also lifted more people out of poverty in the last few decades than any other country in history. By contrast the US has killed hundreds of millions of people, attacked our coup’d nearly every country, and its people are increasingly living in poverty and homelessness.
Secondly yes, the PRC is socialist, read this or any of the other texts ppl below have made.
If you restrict free speech I consider that authoritarian. I’m not ignoring that Western countries don’t do this, because they do and are also authoritarian.
All states are “authoritarian,” though, what truly differs is which class is in control and exerting that authority. In China, it’s the working class, which is why the west is terrified of it.
Two things can be true.
