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bubblybubbles@lemmy.ml to Memes@lemmy.ml · 9 days ago

Average convo with liberals when Ukraine comes up

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Average convo with liberals when Ukraine comes up

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bubblybubbles@lemmy.ml to Memes@lemmy.ml · 9 days ago
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  • Gaf@feddit.uk
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    6 hours ago

    A few corrections. Ukraine is not run by “Banderites” or neo-nazis. Far-right parties have consistently received low-single-digit percentages of the vote for many years now (I found one small spike in the stats, but that seems like a moment-in-time protest vote, dropping off again) and they hold no real power. Zelensky was elected by a large nationwide majority, including in the east (with international observers).

    No blaming, but there’s no credible evidence that Maidan was a nationalist “false flag.” Multiple investigations found that responsibility was complex and disputed, and not a takeover by extremists.

    Donbas is historically multilingual (russian, ukranian, greeks, germans, jews, tartars, etc.) and not an “indigenous Russian” region, and no international body has found Ukrainian policy to be ethnic cleansing.

    Minsk violations were documented on all sides by the OSCE, including Russia and Russian-backed forces.

    Labeling modern Ukraine as “neo-Nazi” relies on WWII rhetoric, and not present-day political reality.

    • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
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      5 hours ago

      Ukraine is run by Banderite neo-Nazis. From davel’s compilation, again:

      • BBC, 2014: Ukraine underplays role of far right in conflict
      • Human Rights Watch, 2014: Ukraine: Unguided Rockets Killing Civilians
      • The Hill, 2017: The reality of neo-Nazis in Ukraine is far from Kremlin propaganda
      • The Guardian, 2017: ‘I want to bring up a warrior’: Ukraine’s far-right children’s camp – video
      • WaPo, 2018: The war in Ukraine is more devastating than you know
      • Reuters, 2018: Ukraine’s neo-Nazi problem
      • The Nation, 2019: Neo-Nazis and the Far Right Are On the March in Ukraine
      • openDemocracy, 2019: Why Ukraine’s new language law will have long-term consequences
      • Jacobin, 2022: A US-Backed, Far Right–Led Revolution in Ukraine Helped Bring Us to the Brink of War
      • Consortium News, 2022: Evidence of US-Backed Coup in Kiev
      • Al Jazeera, 2022: Why did Ukraine suspend 11 ‘pro-Russia’ parties?
      • History of Fascism in Ukraine: Part I, Part II, Part III, Part IV

      Groups like Azov have been folded in officially. The Kiev regime upholds Stepan Bandera and uses likeness for propaganda. Nazis infest Ukrainian leadership:

      The east supported Yanukovych, and that’s why the far-right Banderites couping him kicked off the war.

      Stop defending a fascist and the neo-Nazis both of you support.

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