That’s chauvinism. People here are perfectly capable of thinking for themselves.
Seemingly not, there’s a lot of evidence that what’s happening in Xinjiang are not “lies”… And that is certainly not chauvinism. Or well I don’t want to deny that you are thinking for yourself, but when a lot of relevant variables/info is missing than the conclusion of the thought is well incomplete (and thus incorrect).
Most people who are online regularly have VPNs anyway and even many who aren’t regularly too
I mean the necessity for that alone is proof to me that china is authoritarian, I cannot imagine having to use a VPN for basic things, like accessing something like the Wikipedia (great loss for you btw. it’s probably one of the greatest things that the internet has brought so far, not all the capitalistic bullshit that the Silicon Valley creates)
It is also worth noting that major international bodies have not formally classified the situation as genocide. The United Nations has raised concerns about human rights abuses but has not declared a genocide. The Organisation of Islamic Cooperation, representing dozens of Muslim-majority countries, has not described it that way either. That does not mean nothing problematic happened. During the crackdown on ETIM after the numerous attacks there were clearly heavy-handed policies and abuses. But there is still no credible evidence that meets the legal definition of genocide.
I think it’s fairly interesting how much you want to protect this, I wouldn’t mince matters anyhow if something close happens within our system, and I hope a lot of other people wouldn’t too, not even because it wouldn’t be correct, but just to put pressure on the political leadership, such that they know that they don’t get away with this easily, because often there’s some truth to it when there’s a lot of evidence (and well there certainly is for the case of Uyghurs…).
By that logic you could argue the United States is committing genocide against African Americans through decades of structural abuse in policing and incarceration.
Yes I do argue that, you cannot imagine how disgusted everyone around here (in my social circle) is about what is currently happening to the US. It’s really sad, in what speed they drag into the mud… MAGAts are really viewed as scum here, I cannot stop shaking my head about the stupidity of a lot of people in the US…
I definitely don’t defend the US, I honestly would like to cut ties basically yesterday (although geostrategically that puts europe between multiple fronts, but I think it’s worth it non the less, to be independent of this sad development).
including most Western states in one form or another.
While I agree, that most of our democracies are not perfect (European/EU, the US is basically fascism at this point), they basically all allow political plurality, well lets start even by democracy… Rule of law is independent of the executive (separation of powers), nah the more I get into it the less I agree with that…
That is simply not accurate. People complain about policies, argue about politics, and make jokes about officials all the time.
Can they do that with state funded TV, like Winnie the pooh (funny story btw. that your great leader is so offended by that caricature…)?
Seemingly not, there’s a lot of evidence that what’s happening in Xinjiang are not “lies”… And that is certainly not chauvinism. Or well I don’t want to deny that you are thinking for yourself, but when a lot of relevant variables/info is missing than the conclusion of the thought is well incomplete (and thus incorrect).
If you read my post you’d see I know there were abuses but characterising it as a genocide is a lie built on lies and exaggerations of those abuses.
I mean the necessity for that alone is proof to me that china is authoritarian, I cannot imagine having to use a VPN for basic things, like accessing something like the Wikipedia (great loss for you btw. it’s probably one of the greatest things that the internet has brought so far, not all the capitalistic bullshit that the Silicon Valley creates)
The firewall was originally created to foster and protect China’s fledgling digital infrastructure and data sovereignty. That was a legitimate policy choice. Many countries regulate foreign platforms and data flows. China built its own ecosystem instead of depending on foreign companies. We have seen what happens when foreign platforms operate without local oversight: Facebook facilitating genocide in Myanmar, coordinated anti-vax disinformation campaigns in Southeast Asia, algorithm-driven radicalization. The firewall makes those kinds of external influence operations harder to run at scale.
I like many others here support the firewall even though it can be inconvenient (so long as vpns remain accessible and legal). I have seen the alternatives. The trade off makes sense to us.
Also fuck Wikipedia it constantly sites bullshit like RFA and is used by American intelligence to run psyops. If you use it as a source for anything outside of scientific facts like the atomic number of an element you’re an idiot.
Pointing out genocide is distinct from abuse is bad
You do realise if you call all abuses genocide you’re not only diluting the term genocide but also slinging mud on the real grievances of people?
While I agree, that most of our democracies are not perfect (European/EU, the US is basically fascism at this point), they basically all allow political plurality, well lets start even by democracy… Rule of law is independent of the executive (separation of powers), nah the more I get into it the less I agree with that
So you agree it applies to pretty much every country? And again can see how that makes it largely meaningless?
Can they do that with state funded TV, like Winnie the pooh (funny story btw. that your great leader is so offended by that caricature…)?
Why do you need TV to agree with you? Are you incapable of having independant political discussion with people in your country without the TV telling you what to think? Also Winnie the pooh isn’t banned Winnie the Pooh merch is all over the place it’s super popular. Not to mention Disneyland and it’s Winnie the pooh themed areas. What was banned was platforms regulating the spread of a racist caricature in the same way they do all other racist caricatures because social media harm is actually regulated here as opposed to allowed run rampant for profits sake.
Are you incapable of having independant political discussion with people in your country without the TV telling you what to think?
Eh?? This was just an example of the “freedom” that we have here, I for instance don’t watch any TV. I try to avoid any influence that I don’t chose (e.g. I block any ad, I don’t want to be influenced without my consent, reality is more difficult I know).
Also fuck Wikipedia it constantly sites bullshit like RFA and is used by American intelligence to run psyops. If you use it as a source for anything outside of scientific facts like the atomic number of an element you’re an idiot.
So you agree it applies to pretty much every country? And again can see how that makes it largely meaningless?
I like many others here support the firewall even though it can be inconvenient (so long as vpns remain accessible and legal). I have seen the alternatives. The trade off makes sense to us.
(I’ve got a different view from other chinese people…)
Ok, I think we’ve talked enough.
Live a happy life in your echo-chamber.
I cannot fathom protecting some kind of central authority (I’m anarchist), whether it’s european, american or chinese. When there’s something that wants to regulate/restrict me for stuff that doesn’t hurt society than I’m openly against it (hell, I would even consider myself communist, but like the real thing (which IMO includes anarchism), not centralized/authoritarian bullshit, which in reality seems difficult to achieve, but here we are in an imperfect world with imperfect political systems)
What’s the irony? That I don’t want to talk with people who are obviously “influenced” by Authoritarianism?
I consider myself fairly educated about the political state of the world (if you mean the echo-chamber stuff…), unlike a lot of people on this instance. As you might have read in my comments, but AFAIK I recognize you as well as tankie, so…
I’ve honestly forgotten how full of tankies this instance actually is… (once it was just “left” with slight tankie influences, but now, oh boy…)
No you’re a child. You refuse to analyse class power, material conditions and the reality of the world. You prefer the much easier option of just condemning everything short of utopian flat society instantly. You should stop giving anarchists a bad name.
Seemingly not, there’s a lot of evidence that what’s happening in Xinjiang are not “lies”… And that is certainly not chauvinism. Or well I don’t want to deny that you are thinking for yourself, but when a lot of relevant variables/info is missing than the conclusion of the thought is well incomplete (and thus incorrect).
I mean the necessity for that alone is proof to me that china is authoritarian, I cannot imagine having to use a VPN for basic things, like accessing something like the Wikipedia (great loss for you btw. it’s probably one of the greatest things that the internet has brought so far, not all the capitalistic bullshit that the Silicon Valley creates)
I think it’s fairly interesting how much you want to protect this, I wouldn’t mince matters anyhow if something close happens within our system, and I hope a lot of other people wouldn’t too, not even because it wouldn’t be correct, but just to put pressure on the political leadership, such that they know that they don’t get away with this easily, because often there’s some truth to it when there’s a lot of evidence (and well there certainly is for the case of Uyghurs…).
Yes I do argue that, you cannot imagine how disgusted everyone around here (in my social circle) is about what is currently happening to the US. It’s really sad, in what speed they drag into the mud… MAGAts are really viewed as scum here, I cannot stop shaking my head about the stupidity of a lot of people in the US…
I definitely don’t defend the US, I honestly would like to cut ties basically yesterday (although geostrategically that puts europe between multiple fronts, but I think it’s worth it non the less, to be independent of this sad development).
While I agree, that most of our democracies are not perfect (European/EU, the US is basically fascism at this point), they basically all allow political plurality, well lets start even by democracy… Rule of law is independent of the executive (separation of powers), nah the more I get into it the less I agree with that…
Can they do that with state funded TV, like Winnie the pooh (funny story btw. that your great leader is so offended by that caricature…)?
If you read my post you’d see I know there were abuses but characterising it as a genocide is a lie built on lies and exaggerations of those abuses.
The firewall was originally created to foster and protect China’s fledgling digital infrastructure and data sovereignty. That was a legitimate policy choice. Many countries regulate foreign platforms and data flows. China built its own ecosystem instead of depending on foreign companies. We have seen what happens when foreign platforms operate without local oversight: Facebook facilitating genocide in Myanmar, coordinated anti-vax disinformation campaigns in Southeast Asia, algorithm-driven radicalization. The firewall makes those kinds of external influence operations harder to run at scale.
I like many others here support the firewall even though it can be inconvenient (so long as vpns remain accessible and legal). I have seen the alternatives. The trade off makes sense to us.
Also fuck Wikipedia it constantly sites bullshit like RFA and is used by American intelligence to run psyops. If you use it as a source for anything outside of scientific facts like the atomic number of an element you’re an idiot.
You do realise if you call all abuses genocide you’re not only diluting the term genocide but also slinging mud on the real grievances of people?
So you agree it applies to pretty much every country? And again can see how that makes it largely meaningless?
Why do you need TV to agree with you? Are you incapable of having independant political discussion with people in your country without the TV telling you what to think? Also Winnie the pooh isn’t banned Winnie the Pooh merch is all over the place it’s super popular. Not to mention Disneyland and it’s Winnie the pooh themed areas. What was banned was platforms regulating the spread of a racist caricature in the same way they do all other racist caricatures because social media harm is actually regulated here as opposed to allowed run rampant for profits sake.
Eh?? This was just an example of the “freedom” that we have here, I for instance don’t watch any TV. I try to avoid any influence that I don’t chose (e.g. I block any ad, I don’t want to be influenced without my consent, reality is more difficult I know).
(I’ve got a different view from other chinese people…)
Ok, I think we’ve talked enough.
Live a happy life in your echo-chamber.
I cannot fathom protecting some kind of central authority (I’m anarchist), whether it’s european, american or chinese. When there’s something that wants to regulate/restrict me for stuff that doesn’t hurt society than I’m openly against it (hell, I would even consider myself communist, but like the real thing (which IMO includes anarchism), not centralized/authoritarian bullshit, which in reality seems difficult to achieve, but here we are in an imperfect world with imperfect political systems)
How do you post this without realizing the irony?
What’s the irony? That I don’t want to talk with people who are obviously “influenced” by Authoritarianism?
I consider myself fairly educated about the political state of the world (if you mean the echo-chamber stuff…), unlike a lot of people on this instance. As you might have read in my comments, but AFAIK I recognize you as well as tankie, so…
I’ve honestly forgotten how full of tankies this instance actually is… (once it was just “left” with slight tankie influences, but now, oh boy…)
No you’re a child. You refuse to analyse class power, material conditions and the reality of the world. You prefer the much easier option of just condemning everything short of utopian flat society instantly. You should stop giving anarchists a bad name.