I agree with this other than calling metal pop. Like that’s just a fundamental misunderstanding of music genres that I cannot abide. The rest, especially the part about popular musicians often just being paid for actors, is spot on.
I’ve posted this in the past Jeffrey Lewis and The Rain have a fantastic lyric about this in WWPRD:
I gotta say up front I don’t know how much this really matters. Look, if you can find venue/record store, that isn’t just making a dig at them by calling them pop, I’ll consider changing my definition. But like I’ve never, in the hundreds of record stores I’ve been in, or the multiple different places I’ve listened to music, seen Metallica in the Pop section. It just does not fit description or sound that people associate with pop.
Additionally, I legitimately don’t think Metallica are talented enough to make a pop/poppy song. I think they are a band of one trick ponies and they never strayed super far from that in my past listening, or in my incredibly limited recent listening.
Like just reading through the wiki for pop music and I don’t see how their music fits the bill really. There are just too many differences in the style, makeup, and general sound to make the square peg fit in the round hole in my opinion:
Youre right, but this isnt me reversing course, its me saying: you are using “pop music” with a different definition from the person you are responding too
Pop-music per your definition is a genre or set of genres.
Pop-music per the definition presented though is any successfully commercialized music that by association with the label of that commercialized genre perpetuates further commercialization. Metallica, and thus metal that follows them falls into this category.
I’ve always found anti-establishment music on commercial labels interesting. I think a lot of the time the musicians are putting on an act. They’re doing what sells, and sometimes that’s singing anti-establishment songs, even if they don’t feel that message in their hearts.
Then there are bands like Chumbawamba and Rage Against the Machine where I think the artists actually do have anti-establishment views. When they have commercial success it’s interesting. The band is sometimes happy that they’re able to spread their message more widely. But, sometimes they’re conflicted because they’re feeding the very machine against which they rage. Meanwhile, the record company realizes that the band’s success is due to their anti-establishment message. So, somehow they need to milk the commercially successful act to generate as much profit as possible without pissing off the band too much, and without getting the band labelled as a sell-out.
Jokes on him I think he’s a douche for the things he’s DONE not just the music he’s made. The music is still pretty shit in my opinion, but his actions are top shelf asshole.
Im not OP but maybe they meant Metallica is pop. Which I hard agree with. Or the other huge, major popular ‘metal’ bands mostly from the 80s and 90s that are now mostly enjoyed by children and high schoolers.
I dunno. I still put those into metal, just sellout bullshit metal. I feel like you have to take the good with the bad. I try not to get all “no true scotsman” with bands just cause I personally despise everything they make and stand for.
Pop is just a completely different genre, with a completely different sound. That’s why personally, I just can’t abide by saying that Metallica, no matter how shit at metal they are, is somehow pop. There’s not a single song I can think of that I would classify as pop music that I’ve heard from them. In fairness though, I don’t think I’ve listened to them in like 25ish years so they might have completely changed and started making dance music or some shit.
For an added little further explanation I hate Pantera cause they’re bunch of weird racists. I still think they make metal music. They’re just shit heads and I’ll never listen to their garbage either.
I mean, one, the Unforgiven, even nothing else matters is a great song but it isn’t very similar to most of what you find in the ‘metal’ genre except that they use electric guitars. If you swapped out the guitars for like a piano or acoustic it definitely sounds like pop. Also it’s not even just Metallica. songs like crazy train or Mr Crowley… These are definitely ‘pop metal’ that’s very much more accessible to fans of other genres than any other kind of metal.
Fair enough. I’ll start moving their records to the pop section when I go to music stores!
Out of curiosity how would you classify Nirvana? To stay in the metal genre, a better example might be System of A Down. Specifically songs like Chop Suey! fit the definition you have as I understand it.
Personally, I think it gets sort of needlessly pedantic to put EVERY band into the pop category because they had a poppy/popular song. I also think people, especially metal heads, like to exclude bands from the genre they like because they don’t like that band in particular. They even have had some rather interesting takes about what is “metal” and go to great lengths to defend that notion. Not to say other music fans don’t do it, just that metal seems to struggle with it more than most.
To metalhead apparently yes. To literally anyone else in the music industry no. Pop is specifically commercially designed music. Could you imagine booking a pop cover band and they show up and start playing Metallica? The imagery of that is kind of hilarious to me. Like read the wiki if you really care to try and categorize it more than “it 'spopular so it’s pop.”
These few Metal artists fit into pop, if it’s popular according to record companies and the music industry then it’s pop, and like Metallica haven’t made actual Metal in decades, some hard rock or dad rock, sure, but Metal? absolutely not. Go to any major radio station that would play Metallica and try and get them to play Phantom Lord or Whiplash if you doubt that.
Most of the Metal out there would NEVER be played on the radio nor would they want to be, neither are they considered “popular” by any of the previous criteria.
And by pop I mean popular music. Maybe not at first but they play corporate events now ffs. Selling millions. My humble opinion.
Re: grunge, yeah pop for a Seattle minute.my opinion.
It’s an act. Many popular music musicians are actors really. And metal is just a form of pop music. Feel free to disagree
I agree with this other than calling metal pop. Like that’s just a fundamental misunderstanding of music genres that I cannot abide. The rest, especially the part about popular musicians often just being paid for actors, is spot on.
I’ve posted this in the past Jeffrey Lewis and The Rain have a fantastic lyric about this in WWPRD:
Pretty sure this is a word use issue. Metal IS pop music, in that it is closely tied to mainstream commercial endeavors.
The GENRE pop music is basically a nonsense term. Its not one thing, its dozens, and metal is a counter response to many of those things.
Yes, you can lump a whole ton of stuff together and make categorical statements about it, even when it shouldn’t make sense.
Rap is pop? Yep! And nope! Country is pop? Yep! And nope! Metal is pop? Yep! And nope!
So yes, Metallica as people may (have once) been a part of the ethos that spawned metal and its signifiers, they are absolutely pop stars.
I gotta say up front I don’t know how much this really matters. Look, if you can find venue/record store, that isn’t just making a dig at them by calling them pop, I’ll consider changing my definition. But like I’ve never, in the hundreds of record stores I’ve been in, or the multiple different places I’ve listened to music, seen Metallica in the Pop section. It just does not fit description or sound that people associate with pop.
Additionally, I legitimately don’t think Metallica are talented enough to make a pop/poppy song. I think they are a band of one trick ponies and they never strayed super far from that in my past listening, or in my incredibly limited recent listening.
Like just reading through the wiki for pop music and I don’t see how their music fits the bill really. There are just too many differences in the style, makeup, and general sound to make the square peg fit in the round hole in my opinion:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pop_music
Youre right, but this isnt me reversing course, its me saying: you are using “pop music” with a different definition from the person you are responding too
Pop-music per your definition is a genre or set of genres. Pop-music per the definition presented though is any successfully commercialized music that by association with the label of that commercialized genre perpetuates further commercialization. Metallica, and thus metal that follows them falls into this category.
I’ve always found anti-establishment music on commercial labels interesting. I think a lot of the time the musicians are putting on an act. They’re doing what sells, and sometimes that’s singing anti-establishment songs, even if they don’t feel that message in their hearts.
Then there are bands like Chumbawamba and Rage Against the Machine where I think the artists actually do have anti-establishment views. When they have commercial success it’s interesting. The band is sometimes happy that they’re able to spread their message more widely. But, sometimes they’re conflicted because they’re feeding the very machine against which they rage. Meanwhile, the record company realizes that the band’s success is due to their anti-establishment message. So, somehow they need to milk the commercially successful act to generate as much profit as possible without pissing off the band too much, and without getting the band labelled as a sell-out.
"All you know about me is what I’ve sold you, dumb fuck.
I sold out long before you’d ever even heard my name.
I sold my soul to make a record, dipshit, then you bought one."
Jokes on him I think he’s a douche for the things he’s DONE not just the music he’s made. The music is still pretty shit in my opinion, but his actions are top shelf asshole.
Im not OP but maybe they meant Metallica is pop. Which I hard agree with. Or the other huge, major popular ‘metal’ bands mostly from the 80s and 90s that are now mostly enjoyed by children and high schoolers.
I dunno. I still put those into metal, just sellout bullshit metal. I feel like you have to take the good with the bad. I try not to get all “no true scotsman” with bands just cause I personally despise everything they make and stand for.
Pop is just a completely different genre, with a completely different sound. That’s why personally, I just can’t abide by saying that Metallica, no matter how shit at metal they are, is somehow pop. There’s not a single song I can think of that I would classify as pop music that I’ve heard from them. In fairness though, I don’t think I’ve listened to them in like 25ish years so they might have completely changed and started making dance music or some shit.
For an added little further explanation I hate Pantera cause they’re bunch of weird racists. I still think they make metal music. They’re just shit heads and I’ll never listen to their garbage either.
I mean, one, the Unforgiven, even nothing else matters is a great song but it isn’t very similar to most of what you find in the ‘metal’ genre except that they use electric guitars. If you swapped out the guitars for like a piano or acoustic it definitely sounds like pop. Also it’s not even just Metallica. songs like crazy train or Mr Crowley… These are definitely ‘pop metal’ that’s very much more accessible to fans of other genres than any other kind of metal.
Fair enough. I’ll start moving their records to the pop section when I go to music stores!
Out of curiosity how would you classify Nirvana? To stay in the metal genre, a better example might be System of A Down. Specifically songs like Chop Suey! fit the definition you have as I understand it.
Personally, I think it gets sort of needlessly pedantic to put EVERY band into the pop category because they had a poppy/popular song. I also think people, especially metal heads, like to exclude bands from the genre they like because they don’t like that band in particular. They even have had some rather interesting takes about what is “metal” and go to great lengths to defend that notion. Not to say other music fans don’t do it, just that metal seems to struggle with it more than most.
Isn’t pop just a shortening of popular? So pop music is just popular music?
To metalhead apparently yes. To literally anyone else in the music industry no. Pop is specifically commercially designed music. Could you imagine booking a pop cover band and they show up and start playing Metallica? The imagery of that is kind of hilarious to me. Like read the wiki if you really care to try and categorize it more than “it 'spopular so it’s pop.”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pop_music
These few Metal artists fit into pop, if it’s popular according to record companies and the music industry then it’s pop, and like Metallica haven’t made actual Metal in decades, some hard rock or dad rock, sure, but Metal? absolutely not. Go to any major radio station that would play Metallica and try and get them to play Phantom Lord or Whiplash if you doubt that.
Most of the Metal out there would NEVER be played on the radio nor would they want to be, neither are they considered “popular” by any of the previous criteria.
I’m on board with that. My initial take is admittedly not good. Reaction to the article and the band.
And by pop I mean popular music. Maybe not at first but they play corporate events now ffs. Selling millions. My humble opinion. Re: grunge, yeah pop for a Seattle minute.my opinion.