I’m less optimistic about Balkanization. If the Democrats who dominate politics in the west are anything to go by, we’re in for authoritarian feudalism that dresses itself if up as progressive. This is without mentioning the wars that would be inevitable in a federal collapse; wars in which at least some of the players have nukes.
It’s honestly wild when people talk about Ballanization as if it could be a good thing. It’s not some magic fairytale word. It happened. It led to some incredibly bloody conflicts.
Though imo, I think Dems would be the least of our problems. If the state falls apatt, I think it’s more likely the corporation simply sieze direct control.
Corporations themselves lack the will and intelligence to control a state directly. This isn’t Cyberpunk. Corporations need states, not the other way around. What’s more likely is one specific oligarch taking control by using their wealth and connections to boost their campaign and running a populist platform (what do you think “benevolent” billionaire Tom Steyer was up to in California’s gubernatorial race?)
This is distinctly different to a corporation seizing control, because the former oligarch is a dictator first and an oligarch second. Unless bloodline royalty sees a long term cultural resurgence, they cannot build anything past their own lifetime, especially with how volatile the current situation is.
Yeah, the Balkans aren’t exactly a beacon of happy stability since they started coming to pieces. The UN intervened (poorly) in a genocide there in 1995.
thats fair. i dont think any solution is going to be anything but fraught at this point. it would just be nice to leave the vindictive anchor of the south behind, even though i know thats functionally impossible and probably wouldnt really help the situation. its nice to dream of one thing making building the queer socialist solarpunk utopia of my dreams a little bit easier to achieve.
I don’t think it’s the south holding America back as much as the common American ethos that is endemic to the entire country. The south has some of the worst poverty, inequality, disenfranchisement in the country. However, all those problems are intrinsically linked to the wealthy costal elite shareholders who designed that regional suffering. They hope we waste time bickering with each other, because it distracts us from every reigning in the people who can freely move their wealth whatever they please. That have no strong attachments to any location, as the ability to freely move capital at their convenience is their biggest strength.
A breakup of America would require a lot more degradation of federal authority to be successful. Neofeudal “liberals” might use the Trump’s embarrassment of America as a way to market blue states taking more power from the fed. Only if they manage to disentangle the military and make it more regional can America properly Balkanize. Even a weak federal government will fight to keep America together, as it would instantly lose countless advantages if it allows a single state to leave.
The West Coast in the best position to become self reliant, with everywhere else either being too reliant on the federal government, too difficult to defend if they declared independence, or have a lot to gain by gaining control of the federal government. Texas would be next in line to seek independence, but with the West gone, they’d be better off working with the South to gain control of the fed and dominate the North. The Northwest is vulnerable to pressure from both the North and the South, and the North would have an uphill battle fighting a Southern controlled federal government. The Southern states or Texas might secede if the North ever gained control, but that would only happen if they lost control of the fed after failing to recapture the West.
The biggest thing to recognize about America as a nation-state is that the federal government has such an overwhelming advantage by virtue of controlling specific areas that aren’t as productive on their own. Hawaii and Alaska are reliant on the rest of the country by virtue of their isolation, and while an independent West might be able to win the hearts of Hawaii, it’s unlikely to win over Alaska based on its current politics. Alaska is an extremely powerful location for the military and would be a huge problem for any secessionist Westerners. Key military production is totally reliant on east coast manufacturing, while the productivity enabled by the Mississippi River makes it a force to be reckoned with. The only way the West could ever stand a chance is if the fed moves a lot more military manufacturing across the country, they are somehow convinced to effectively decentralize/weaken the military, AND some outside empire helps out in significant ways. It’s theoretically possible, but it would take a long time and a lot of specific outcomes to happen.
All this is to say that I’m not betting on civil war before a lot of terrible shit goes down. By the time civil war shows up, it might look more like yet another horrifying calamity than a path to a better future.
Well at least I exist in actual political reality instead of whatever fantasy theory land you think actually exists. You vote for democrats or you condone republicans winning. It’s a broken system sure, but unless you’re a fucking idiot that has no concept of civics or the political process you understand that either blue or red is gonna win and red is a lot worse than blue so unless you’re angling for blue, you’re actively working for red. Congratulations, you’re working for fascists.
And who do you think the fascists work for? Any say we might’ve had is long gone, and anything positive we do get going forward was approved by the lords before sending it to us to rubber stamp it. They will destroy our society, and given how delusional most Americans still are about our situation, they will not be stopped until the generations that believed in America are mostly dead.
I, for one, would like to become part of Canada. Pennsylvania (and the rest of the northeast) isn’t that awful, it’s once you get south of the Mason-Dixon or west of the Mississippi (and before you hit the coastal states) that the country gets really awful and backwards, surely Canada would be able to tolerate us. They tolerate Quebec, anyways.
my black friend is not enjoying her life since she moved to Pennsylvania and having family from there I’m not shocked. a predominantly black or Latino area in the south beats Pennsylvania by a long shot.
See I’d always been told/had heard in passing it was the residents of Quebec that other Canadians found the most… shall we say contentious, but I’ve also heard plenty about Danielle Smith and her Trump sycophancy shitfuckery the past few years. Is Quebec no longer considered the red-headed stepchild of the provinces?
This is my own opinion so someone may have proof and an argument otherwise.
Québec has always had a bit of unique relationship with the rest if Canada, largely due to the language difference and the French identity around that. It’s different than somewhere with French roots, you cross the border and it is adamantly French. While there are certainty people in the province that have the average Canadian level of French (almost none) there is a large population with the opposite (minimal to no English). Stats Canada would probably have the exact numbers. I personally felt Québec (as a province/politically) was more the sibling that considered themselves enlightened, but came across as somewhat pretentious. However, tRump 2.0 did something completely in expected. With the ongoing sovereignty threats to Canada Québec took a slide towards Canada.
Alberta (province/politically) is just delusional and needs medical assistance.
One side is fascism, and the other is controlled opposition. They are not a side that can defeat fascism because they directly benefit from it. It’s usually the fascists who are responsible when the fascists lose power, not the neofeudal ghouls who gave up on liberal democracy long ago. Constant oligarchic influence had atrophied their ability to stand for anything, and the end result is a system where voices for change fall on deaf ears.
It is both sides that are the problem. I’m sorry you can’t handle not having a strong team to root for.
I’m not accelerating shit. I both regularly vote for harm reduction and think our slide into hell is inevitable. However, because my perspective doesn’t fit into your convenient preconceptions, you straight up cannot believe that I believe what I do.
It’s almost funny how much liberals like you resemble tankies. Both of you sort everyone who disagrees with you into easy to understand boxes that reaffirm your beliefs. Both of you think that the only way to exist is to wholeheartedly support a team and silence all criticism of it, even from people willing to work with you. Both of you are insults to all the good things your respective philosophies claim to represent. It’s pathetic.
i hope we balkanize. ill happily stay in the west with the people who dont want to kill me.
I’m less optimistic about Balkanization. If the Democrats who dominate politics in the west are anything to go by, we’re in for authoritarian feudalism that dresses itself if up as progressive. This is without mentioning the wars that would be inevitable in a federal collapse; wars in which at least some of the players have nukes.
It’s honestly wild when people talk about Ballanization as if it could be a good thing. It’s not some magic fairytale word. It happened. It led to some incredibly bloody conflicts.
Though imo, I think Dems would be the least of our problems. If the state falls apatt, I think it’s more likely the corporation simply sieze direct control.
Corporations themselves lack the will and intelligence to control a state directly. This isn’t Cyberpunk. Corporations need states, not the other way around. What’s more likely is one specific oligarch taking control by using their wealth and connections to boost their campaign and running a populist platform (what do you think “benevolent” billionaire Tom Steyer was up to in California’s gubernatorial race?)
This is distinctly different to a corporation seizing control, because the former oligarch is a dictator first and an oligarch second. Unless bloodline royalty sees a long term cultural resurgence, they cannot build anything past their own lifetime, especially with how volatile the current situation is.
Yeah, the Balkans aren’t exactly a beacon of happy stability since they started coming to pieces. The UN intervened (poorly) in a genocide there in 1995.
thats fair. i dont think any solution is going to be anything but fraught at this point. it would just be nice to leave the vindictive anchor of the south behind, even though i know thats functionally impossible and probably wouldnt really help the situation. its nice to dream of one thing making building the queer socialist solarpunk utopia of my dreams a little bit easier to achieve.
I don’t think it’s the south holding America back as much as the common American ethos that is endemic to the entire country. The south has some of the worst poverty, inequality, disenfranchisement in the country. However, all those problems are intrinsically linked to the wealthy costal elite shareholders who designed that regional suffering. They hope we waste time bickering with each other, because it distracts us from every reigning in the people who can freely move their wealth whatever they please. That have no strong attachments to any location, as the ability to freely move capital at their convenience is their biggest strength.
A breakup of America would require a lot more degradation of federal authority to be successful. Neofeudal “liberals” might use the Trump’s embarrassment of America as a way to market blue states taking more power from the fed. Only if they manage to disentangle the military and make it more regional can America properly Balkanize. Even a weak federal government will fight to keep America together, as it would instantly lose countless advantages if it allows a single state to leave.
The West Coast in the best position to become self reliant, with everywhere else either being too reliant on the federal government, too difficult to defend if they declared independence, or have a lot to gain by gaining control of the federal government. Texas would be next in line to seek independence, but with the West gone, they’d be better off working with the South to gain control of the fed and dominate the North. The Northwest is vulnerable to pressure from both the North and the South, and the North would have an uphill battle fighting a Southern controlled federal government. The Southern states or Texas might secede if the North ever gained control, but that would only happen if they lost control of the fed after failing to recapture the West.
The biggest thing to recognize about America as a nation-state is that the federal government has such an overwhelming advantage by virtue of controlling specific areas that aren’t as productive on their own. Hawaii and Alaska are reliant on the rest of the country by virtue of their isolation, and while an independent West might be able to win the hearts of Hawaii, it’s unlikely to win over Alaska based on its current politics. Alaska is an extremely powerful location for the military and would be a huge problem for any secessionist Westerners. Key military production is totally reliant on east coast manufacturing, while the productivity enabled by the Mississippi River makes it a force to be reckoned with. The only way the West could ever stand a chance is if the fed moves a lot more military manufacturing across the country, they are somehow convinced to effectively decentralize/weaken the military, AND some outside empire helps out in significant ways. It’s theoretically possible, but it would take a long time and a lot of specific outcomes to happen.
All this is to say that I’m not betting on civil war before a lot of terrible shit goes down. By the time civil war shows up, it might look more like yet another horrifying calamity than a path to a better future.
“Coastal elites” is a Fox news phrase. Your colors are showing.
Your view of politics is so small that I almost feel bad for you.
Well at least I exist in actual political reality instead of whatever fantasy theory land you think actually exists. You vote for democrats or you condone republicans winning. It’s a broken system sure, but unless you’re a fucking idiot that has no concept of civics or the political process you understand that either blue or red is gonna win and red is a lot worse than blue so unless you’re angling for blue, you’re actively working for red. Congratulations, you’re working for fascists.
And who do you think the fascists work for? Any say we might’ve had is long gone, and anything positive we do get going forward was approved by the lords before sending it to us to rubber stamp it. They will destroy our society, and given how delusional most Americans still are about our situation, they will not be stopped until the generations that believed in America are mostly dead.
I, for one, would like to become part of Canada. Pennsylvania (and the rest of the northeast) isn’t that awful, it’s once you get south of the Mason-Dixon or west of the Mississippi (and before you hit the coastal states) that the country gets really awful and backwards, surely Canada would be able to tolerate us. They tolerate Quebec, anyways.
my black friend is not enjoying her life since she moved to Pennsylvania and having family from there I’m not shocked. a predominantly black or Latino area in the south beats Pennsylvania by a long shot.
Canada does the same, have you heard of Alberta?
See I’d always been told/had heard in passing it was the residents of Quebec that other Canadians found the most… shall we say contentious, but I’ve also heard plenty about Danielle Smith and her Trump sycophancy shitfuckery the past few years. Is Quebec no longer considered the red-headed stepchild of the provinces?
This is my own opinion so someone may have proof and an argument otherwise.
Québec has always had a bit of unique relationship with the rest if Canada, largely due to the language difference and the French identity around that. It’s different than somewhere with French roots, you cross the border and it is adamantly French. While there are certainty people in the province that have the average Canadian level of French (almost none) there is a large population with the opposite (minimal to no English). Stats Canada would probably have the exact numbers. I personally felt Québec (as a province/politically) was more the sibling that considered themselves enlightened, but came across as somewhat pretentious. However, tRump 2.0 did something completely in expected. With the ongoing sovereignty threats to Canada Québec took a slide towards Canada.
Alberta (province/politically) is just delusional and needs medical assistance.
Yeah, the reputation I’ve always heard is that they were tryhards cosplaying as Frech: ouiaboos, if you will
ouiaboos, that’s good, I’m stealing that, it’s mine now.
B-b-b-both sides!!
One side is fascism, and the other is controlled opposition. They are not a side that can defeat fascism because they directly benefit from it. It’s usually the fascists who are responsible when the fascists lose power, not the neofeudal ghouls who gave up on liberal democracy long ago. Constant oligarchic influence had atrophied their ability to stand for anything, and the end result is a system where voices for change fall on deaf ears.
It is both sides that are the problem. I’m sorry you can’t handle not having a strong team to root for.
So you’re advocating for accelerating the fascism. Bold strategy Cotton.
Hey look another dumbass on the internet.
I’m not accelerating shit. I both regularly vote for harm reduction and think our slide into hell is inevitable. However, because my perspective doesn’t fit into your convenient preconceptions, you straight up cannot believe that I believe what I do.
It’s almost funny how much liberals like you resemble tankies. Both of you sort everyone who disagrees with you into easy to understand boxes that reaffirm your beliefs. Both of you think that the only way to exist is to wholeheartedly support a team and silence all criticism of it, even from people willing to work with you. Both of you are insults to all the good things your respective philosophies claim to represent. It’s pathetic.
Millions will die in that process.