I would, but the various factions of the left keep getting hamstrung by memers and zingers who would rather post hot takes and play “more leftist than you” instead of figuring out how to take real action. Meanwhile the right accepted that a pedophile was their path to power and won. You think the right knows, or cares, about the difference between a tankie, a socialist, an anarchist, or a liberal? They don’t give a fuck but our refusal to coordinate or compromise on any strategy to fight back benefits them. We still going to be arguing over commie utopia vs anarchist utopia when we’re stuck next to each other in a boxcar?
Cowbee I like the chart, but respectfully a lot of the rhetoric on ML instances reads closer to trolling than engaging to build a “sympathetic base” , just my 2 cents not worth much more than that ;-)
Lemmy.ml isn’t an org, I’m not trying to suggest that it is. Leftists make memes and shitposts here, but when it comes to actual action, organizing in real life is always recommended.
No worries. But making a movement into a farce of itself and encouraging infighting is right out of the 1970s cointel playbook.
Even better if you can do the above to the point that the original ideology is no longer decently reflected in the current discourse
(Note this is consistent with most online leftists spaces, so not throwing specific shade on ML, and gets into a whole greater problem with the role social tech platforms play in shaping discourse)
Every time I see Cowbee in a thread like this, it’s like I walked into a restaurant to see someone trying to explain to somebody else why their friend who just spat in their food is actually a cool dude doing great solidarity because the owners of the restaurant treat their employees poorly.
ML in my experience has very little to do with engaging with leftists and more to do with bashing the “decadent West.” Anytime I see memes.ml pop up in my feed, it’s a 50/50 shot between me finding something funny or something that makes me debate blocking the instance as much as I can at an account level.
Lol you have not seen a single person say this, you’re just reaching into a grab bag of dialogue tropes you’ve heard in old movies or maybe a Red Alert game. Fucking nobody says “the decadent west” outside of Bond movies from 50 years ago. Quit lying.
I didn’t mean that as a literal quote but as sarcastic air quotes to evoke the exact imagery that you came up with. Although, I have actually seen a Hexbear or (what’s the other one, Beehaw?) user use that phrase. Of course, they also said that only capitalist pigs die in China, so it’s hard to tell if they were serious or if it was full commitment to the bit. That part of Lemmy is fairly indistinguishable from a leftist version of 4chan.
Like I said in another comment, ML has an issue common to many leftist communities in that old saying of “nobody hates leftists more than other leftists.” And that can manifest as behaving like more moderate leftists (not liberals - actual leftists) may as well be centrists or conservatives, or treating Europe as being just as bad as Trump’s regime. Purity tests and trolling rather than the mutual cooperation that Cowbee posted.
ML in my experience has very little to do with engaging with leftists and more to do with bashing the “decadent West.” Anytime I see memes.ml pop up in my feed, it’s a 50/50 shot between me finding something funny or something that makes me debate blocking the instance as much as I can at an account level.
Meme communities will be like that, right?
Why not block this community and engage with other communities in the instance?
I guess? I don’t think I’ve ever really stayed in a memes community where that’s the case, though on Reddit I was largely in places like egg_irl and traaa, where everything was focused around a shared experience of a minority group.
Besides, it’s not just the memes community, the memes is just where it appears the most blatantly and loudly. As the person above me said, it’s an instance wide thing. ML is nowhere near as bad as Hexbear (or I have yet to see any targeted harassment campaigns against an instance for failing a purity vibe check come from ML, at least) but, as they say, “nobody hates leftists more than other leftists.” Leftist spaces tend to have a bit of an undercurrent of only being welcoming to the “right kind of leftist.” I used “decadent West” up there very purposefully. There’s a bit of a vibe to ML that’s less “uniting various leftist groups” and more “preaching The Good Word to those poor ignorants” proselytizing.
Spreading memes on the internet is the weakest form of “advocating”, it’s just anonymous virtue signaling to people you’ll never meet or coordinate with for the satisfaction of an upvote. Advocacy means nothing if all it never amounts to action in person. China glazers would rather black and white, this or that authoritarianism and anything less is “liberalism”.
Proud Boys, Oathkeepers, 3%ers, boogaloos, the KKK, and all the rest of the right-wing memers managed to get their shift together and stormed the Capitol to little resistance or consequence, then got jobs murdering the opposition in the streets. Meanwhile Democrats vainly hope it can be voted back to the back and forth bargaining of progress as a reward for peacefully protesting once all permits are secured and so long as everyone only uses words. The far left lets it happen because instead of connecting and planning they bounce back and forth between attacking one another and “advocating” for unity.
When’s the last time you had a realistic discussion of strategy with hot take tankies online vs the last time you had one with a leftist or liberal in real life? The anonymous memes and the China dick-riding are as useful to the fascists as their own propaganda. If it isn’t about finding common ground it’s about further dividing what is already a minority of people who might be willing to take real action if they could unite.
Your entire argument is based on the idea that shitposting online is the primary means by which leftists organize. I organize with a communist party in real life, online memes and shitposting are by no means what people advocate as “practice,” it’s just a thing to do in free time. Take a step back and rethink what you believe is going on.
If you only organize with in real life are other communists and use the global reach of the internet to spread and defend shitposts that serve only to elevate your tribal worldview over that of other leftists, you’re not organizing the “left” in the face of a united right that’s going to grind us all under. You use your free time to shitpost, I use mine to point out why shitposts and the subsequent arguments they start among otherwise likeminded individuals are detrimental. Your entire argument is based on the idea shitposting has any purpose other than to post shit.
What in Earth are you talking about? All real communist orgs use online agitation, newsletters, social media, and more. I’m not saying that shitposting is valuable, I’m saying it’s not what I mean by practice. You’re deeply confused.
I would, but the various factions of the left keep getting hamstrung by memers and zingers who would rather post hot takes and play “more leftist than you” instead of figuring out how to take real action. Meanwhile the right accepted that a pedophile was their path to power and won. You think the right knows, or cares, about the difference between a tankie, a socialist, an anarchist, or a liberal? They don’t give a fuck but our refusal to coordinate or compromise on any strategy to fight back benefits them. We still going to be arguing over commie utopia vs anarchist utopia when we’re stuck next to each other in a boxcar?
Leftists have regularly been advocating for organizing:
The problem with liberals is that they still think the democrats are a path to progress, rather than slow death.
Cowbee I like the chart, but respectfully a lot of the rhetoric on ML instances reads closer to trolling than engaging to build a “sympathetic base” , just my 2 cents not worth much more than that ;-)
Lemmy.ml isn’t an org, I’m not trying to suggest that it is. Leftists make memes and shitposts here, but when it comes to actual action, organizing in real life is always recommended.
Yes. Agree. And I would suggest it is counterproductive to the point of being counter-revolutionary
I don’t agree with the idea that shitposting is counter-revolutionary. Seems a bit much.
No worries. But making a movement into a farce of itself and encouraging infighting is right out of the 1970s cointel playbook.
Even better if you can do the above to the point that the original ideology is no longer decently reflected in the current discourse
(Note this is consistent with most online leftists spaces, so not throwing specific shade on ML, and gets into a whole greater problem with the role social tech platforms play in shaping discourse)
I dunno, I just don’t see the same problems you do.
Every time I see Cowbee in a thread like this, it’s like I walked into a restaurant to see someone trying to explain to somebody else why their friend who just spat in their food is actually a cool dude doing great solidarity because the owners of the restaurant treat their employees poorly.
ML in my experience has very little to do with engaging with leftists and more to do with bashing the “decadent West.” Anytime I see memes.ml pop up in my feed, it’s a 50/50 shot between me finding something funny or something that makes me debate blocking the instance as much as I can at an account level.
Lol you have not seen a single person say this, you’re just reaching into a grab bag of dialogue tropes you’ve heard in old movies or maybe a Red Alert game. Fucking nobody says “the decadent west” outside of Bond movies from 50 years ago. Quit lying.
I didn’t mean that as a literal quote but as sarcastic air quotes to evoke the exact imagery that you came up with. Although, I have actually seen a Hexbear or (what’s the other one, Beehaw?) user use that phrase. Of course, they also said that only capitalist pigs die in China, so it’s hard to tell if they were serious or if it was full commitment to the bit. That part of Lemmy is fairly indistinguishable from a leftist version of 4chan.
Like I said in another comment, ML has an issue common to many leftist communities in that old saying of “nobody hates leftists more than other leftists.” And that can manifest as behaving like more moderate leftists (not liberals - actual leftists) may as well be centrists or conservatives, or treating Europe as being just as bad as Trump’s regime. Purity tests and trolling rather than the mutual cooperation that Cowbee posted.
I see hate from liberals for leftists pointing out the truth, which is somehow intolerable to liberals who claim to be leftists.
Meme communities will be like that, right?
Why not block this community and engage with other communities in the instance?
I guess? I don’t think I’ve ever really stayed in a memes community where that’s the case, though on Reddit I was largely in places like egg_irl and traaa, where everything was focused around a shared experience of a minority group.
Besides, it’s not just the memes community, the memes is just where it appears the most blatantly and loudly. As the person above me said, it’s an instance wide thing. ML is nowhere near as bad as Hexbear (or I have yet to see any targeted harassment campaigns against an instance for failing a purity vibe check come from ML, at least) but, as they say, “nobody hates leftists more than other leftists.” Leftist spaces tend to have a bit of an undercurrent of only being welcoming to the “right kind of leftist.” I used “decadent West” up there very purposefully. There’s a bit of a vibe to ML that’s less “uniting various leftist groups” and more “preaching The Good Word to those poor ignorants” proselytizing.
I think what you’re describing is the difference between leftists shitposting online and actual real-life practice.
Spreading memes on the internet is the weakest form of “advocating”, it’s just anonymous virtue signaling to people you’ll never meet or coordinate with for the satisfaction of an upvote. Advocacy means nothing if all it never amounts to action in person. China glazers would rather black and white, this or that authoritarianism and anything less is “liberalism”.
Proud Boys, Oathkeepers, 3%ers, boogaloos, the KKK, and all the rest of the right-wing memers managed to get their shift together and stormed the Capitol to little resistance or consequence, then got jobs murdering the opposition in the streets. Meanwhile Democrats vainly hope it can be voted back to the back and forth bargaining of progress as a reward for peacefully protesting once all permits are secured and so long as everyone only uses words. The far left lets it happen because instead of connecting and planning they bounce back and forth between attacking one another and “advocating” for unity.
When’s the last time you had a realistic discussion of strategy with hot take tankies online vs the last time you had one with a leftist or liberal in real life? The anonymous memes and the China dick-riding are as useful to the fascists as their own propaganda. If it isn’t about finding common ground it’s about further dividing what is already a minority of people who might be willing to take real action if they could unite.
Your entire argument is based on the idea that shitposting online is the primary means by which leftists organize. I organize with a communist party in real life, online memes and shitposting are by no means what people advocate as “practice,” it’s just a thing to do in free time. Take a step back and rethink what you believe is going on.
If you only organize with in real life are other communists and use the global reach of the internet to spread and defend shitposts that serve only to elevate your tribal worldview over that of other leftists, you’re not organizing the “left” in the face of a united right that’s going to grind us all under. You use your free time to shitpost, I use mine to point out why shitposts and the subsequent arguments they start among otherwise likeminded individuals are detrimental. Your entire argument is based on the idea shitposting has any purpose other than to post shit.
What in Earth are you talking about? All real communist orgs use online agitation, newsletters, social media, and more. I’m not saying that shitposting is valuable, I’m saying it’s not what I mean by practice. You’re deeply confused.