But neither can we say definitively she was cis. Kurt has gone on the record stating that she always associated more with femininity, there is an early draft of “All Apologies” with the line “let me grow some breasts”, etc.
Assuming that the natural and “neutral” state for historical figures is to be cis is due to societal cis-heteronormativity. Yes, it’s true that she never came out or went on the record saying she’s trans. But she also never called herself cis. Public awareness of trans identity was much, much worse even thirty years ago. So she might just not have gotten the chance. And due to that, we can never ask her.
It’s okay if not everyone agrees with this analysis of her identity through a modern lens. If people think she was cis, or a genderqueer man, we can also never refute that. But I, as well as many other trans women, think that for her the signs are quite obvious. And there is nothing wrong with acknowledging that.
The same is true for a number of other figures, btw. Ted Kaczynski was likely a trans woman and abused by her psychiatrist:
Tap for spoiler
For a period of several weeks in 1966, Kaczynski experienced intense sexual fantasies of being female and decided to undergo gender transition. He arranged to meet with a psychiatrist but changed his mind in the waiting room and discussed other things instead, without disclosing his original reason for making the appointment. Afterward, enraged, he considered killing the psychiatrist and other people whom he hated. Kaczynski described this episode as a “major turning point” in his life.[31][32][33] He recalled: “I felt disgusted about what my uncontrolled sexual cravings had almost led me to do. And I felt humiliated, and I violently hated the psychiatrist. Just then there came a major turning point in my life. Like a Phoenix, I burst from the ashes of my despair to a glorious new hope.”
I refuse to call a person pronouns they haven’t publicly identified with. I apply this practice to everybody whether they’re celebrities or people I know irl; whether they’re alive or dead. Not doing so is simply misgendering, which is disrespectful and harmful even if you are proven correct. It doesn’t matter if I buy into a theory about someone’s identity or not, I can’t decide another person’s gender.
We can’t definitively say Cobain was cis, and it’s really fucking sad that the person themselves can never fully answer that question. We only have the information that currently exists, and it’s not enough to say for sure. For all we know, Kurt would’ve rejected binary pronouns entirely; it’s just not our place to say.
She went to the psychiatrist with severe gender dysphoria looking to get healthcare, and left feeling humiliated, ashamed of her ‘depraved’ feelings and full of hate for the psychiatrist. We will never know what exactly happened or what they talked about, but this sounds like she’s a victim of conversion therapy.
The only accounts we have are unreliable, by herself long after the fact. I’d be interested if anyone has the original source, tho, instead of Wikipedia
I guess we will never know. For me reading between the lines of that summary, Ted didn’t talk about it at all, so I would have no reason to assume the psychiatrist thought about conversion therapy.
It sounds like he (she?) was angry at himself and the whole situation, and everyone involved including all of society…
But neither can we say definitively she was cis. Kurt has gone on the record stating that she always associated more with femininity, there is an early draft of “All Apologies” with the line “let me grow some breasts”, etc.
Assuming that the natural and “neutral” state for historical figures is to be cis is due to societal cis-heteronormativity. Yes, it’s true that she never came out or went on the record saying she’s trans. But she also never called herself cis. Public awareness of trans identity was much, much worse even thirty years ago. So she might just not have gotten the chance. And due to that, we can never ask her.
It’s okay if not everyone agrees with this analysis of her identity through a modern lens. If people think she was cis, or a genderqueer man, we can also never refute that. But I, as well as many other trans women, think that for her the signs are quite obvious. And there is nothing wrong with acknowledging that.
The same is true for a number of other figures, btw. Ted Kaczynski was likely a trans woman and abused by her psychiatrist:
Tap for spoiler
For a period of several weeks in 1966, Kaczynski experienced intense sexual fantasies of being female and decided to undergo gender transition. He arranged to meet with a psychiatrist but changed his mind in the waiting room and discussed other things instead, without disclosing his original reason for making the appointment. Afterward, enraged, he considered killing the psychiatrist and other people whom he hated. Kaczynski described this episode as a “major turning point” in his life.[31][32][33] He recalled: “I felt disgusted about what my uncontrolled sexual cravings had almost led me to do. And I felt humiliated, and I violently hated the psychiatrist. Just then there came a major turning point in my life. Like a Phoenix, I burst from the ashes of my despair to a glorious new hope.”
I refuse to call a person pronouns they haven’t publicly identified with. I apply this practice to everybody whether they’re celebrities or people I know irl; whether they’re alive or dead. Not doing so is simply misgendering, which is disrespectful and harmful even if you are proven correct. It doesn’t matter if I buy into a theory about someone’s identity or not, I can’t decide another person’s gender.
We can’t definitively say Cobain was cis, and it’s really fucking sad that the person themselves can never fully answer that question. We only have the information that currently exists, and it’s not enough to say for sure. For all we know, Kurt would’ve rejected binary pronouns entirely; it’s just not our place to say.
I must be missing something – what was the abuse?
reading between the lines:
She went to the psychiatrist with severe gender dysphoria looking to get healthcare, and left feeling humiliated, ashamed of her ‘depraved’ feelings and full of hate for the psychiatrist. We will never know what exactly happened or what they talked about, but this sounds like she’s a victim of conversion therapy.
The only accounts we have are unreliable, by herself long after the fact. I’d be interested if anyone has the original source, tho, instead of Wikipedia
I guess we will never know. For me reading between the lines of that summary, Ted didn’t talk about it at all, so I would have no reason to assume the psychiatrist thought about conversion therapy.
It sounds like he (she?) was angry at himself and the whole situation, and everyone involved including all of society…