Oh my god there was antisemitism in the USSR, even among some leadership! Several doctors got killed!
You’re right, a few incidences of antisemitism are the same as the holocaust, or the pogroms that the pre-soviet monarchy backed by western liberal democracies engaged in. Or the antisemitism in the post soviet union liberal democracies. /s
You are a deeply unserious person. And a holocaust trivializer if it “owns the tankies” apparently. Great priorities.
Can you point me to the exact sentence where I trivialised the holocaust? Hint: I didn’t say anything about the holocaust. All I gave you is a link, the rest is your imagination.
You, OTOH, are severely trivialising antisemitism within the USSR. Stop fucking fanboying.
pre-soviet monarchy backed by western liberal democracies
Please fucking what liberal democracies during Tsarist times? England, France, possibly, am I missing one? And none of that antisemitism was home-grown, it was all the fault of those evil foreigners making poor Russian nobles and priests do stuff? The country most busy with fucking with Tsarist Russia, specifically sending Lenin over mind you, was Germany, very much not a liberal democracy. The age of liberal democracies started after WWI.
Can you point me to the exact sentence where I trivialised the holocaust? Hint: I didn’t say anything about the holocaust. All I gave you is a link, the rest is your imagination.
Oh, so to clarify, you don’t think that the USSR could be described as morally equivalent to fascism?
You, OTOH, are severely trivialising antisemitism within the USSR. Stop fucking fanboying.
Only in the sense that it is trivial in scale compared to the alternative socioeconomic systems of the time.
Also a woman, stop being sexist by assuming a male default.
And none of that antisemitism was home-grown, it was all the fault of those evil foreigners making poor Russian nobles and priests do stuff?
During the Russian Civil War the US, Britain and France sure militarily and financially supported those nobles and priests who did pogroms regaining power. They went so far as to invade the USSR. They had previous working relationships with them and wanted them back in power. The nobles and priests were antisemitic, as were their western partners.
Oh, so to clarify, you don’t think that the USSR could be described as morally equivalent to fascism?
Morally? I’m not talking about morally I’m talking objectively and no of course it was objectively fascist. So was Italy and they didn’t do the Holocaust. So is Scientology, in case you’re looking for an example of non-racist fascists. So are Kahanites and they definitely aren’t antisemitic, being Jews and all that. Your point?
Morally? I’m not talking about morally I’m talking objectively and no of course it was objectively fascist.
Okay, define fascism in a way that excludes liberal democracies and their colonies or neocolonies but includes the USSR. I dont think you know what fascism is.
So was Italy and they didn’t do the Holocaust.
They literally committed a genocide in Africa as part of their political project, they wanted to basically manifest destiny the Mediterranean, did you not hear about it because the victims weren’t (conditionally) white? Do you think they didn’t help the Germans do the Holocaust?
is Scientology, in case you’re looking for an example of non-racist fascists. So are Kahanites
Okay this shows me you can’t give a coherent definition of fascism. Also imagine not thinking scientology is racist. Lol.
Kahanites and they definitely aren’t antisemitic, being Jews and all that.
Lolol are you seriously going to make that argument? Do I need to pull up photos of Jewish people who collaborated with the nazis?
Okay, define fascism in a way that excludes liberal democracies and their colonies or neocolonies but includes the USSR. I dont think you know what fascism is.
My definition of fascism is the usual one you’ll hear from any anarchist: People who send me to bed. But feel free to read Umberto Eco and observe how the USSR gets a score of 10 out of 14, where of course one would be sufficient for fascism to coalesce. Also how you were all too happy to display rejection of modernism by your implicit dissing of liberal democracies. Please, go ahead, tell me about the grand colonial empire of Estonia! Of Greenland! Of Samoa!
She asked you to give a definition of fascism that doesn’t include the liberal democracies, and you went with "meets some (but not all) of the list from Ur-fascism), a standard that would absolutely include all of the liberal democracies.
If your liberal democracy puts you into a mental health ward or gulag for your opinion about the system it’s not a liberal democracy. ML states OTOH really like to do that. There’s an inherent totalitarianism to them, they demand that everyone thinks precisely like some centralised decision organ decides, and you tankies will even defend that. Note here totalitarian vs. authoritarian: Thought itself is controlled, not just practical behaviour (fulfilling the quota won’t help you, you still can’t complain). That kind of monopolisation of the prerogative of interpretation is a practical sign of fascism, once it is coalesced. The Ur-fascism points are merely crystallisation points.
The very point that you can type all that in (presumably) a liberal democracy without getting disappeared means that you’re not living under fascism.
It’s really something, MLs having so shit takes that you make me defend liberal democracies.
Disagreement is treason (elementary school dismissal without argumentative engagement), reference to your precious cult of tradition (Nazism is also modernist you muppet) which you of course misread all the time that’s another strike for Newspeak your “Marxist democracy” is neither of the two, lastly the equation of bourgeois oligarchy with liberal democracy (one does not imply the other), that’s strike four, obsession with a plot and/or the enemy is simultaneously weak and strong, could go either way. Maybe just popular elitism.
Lol. Yes trying to return to an imagined past and having an intellectual tradition are the same thing /s
By that logic basically all ideology(including yours) is fascism, and to not be a fascist we cannot learn literally anything ever about politics.
(Nazism is also modernist you muppet)
You said I was rejecting modernism by rejecting liberal democracy, which is literally rooted in enlightenment ideas. I was saying you are not making sense, because you are saying I’m rejecting modernism when I’m rejecting enlightenment era ideology.
which you of course misread all the time that’s another strike for Newspeak
How about another strike for literally knowing what words mean and using them properly? You did not say modern, you said modernism. If you didn’t want to be misinterpreted, do not use language that conveys an entirely different meaning.
lastly the equation of bourgeois oligarchy with liberal democracy (one does not imply the other), that’s strike four
I wish I had the confidence to make such bold claims with so little knowledge. Have you even ever read about “dictatorship of capital”? Do you even know what that term means? How about you explain it in your own words for me.
obsession with a plot and/or the enemy is simultaneously weak and strong, could go either way. Maybe just popular elitism
Loling at popular elitism.
Also I will never claim that the current state of capitalism is weak.
Also again you are misreading the 14 points as some litmus test.
You gotta be fucking trolling, what fucking western liberal democracies? France?
The US, Britain. France.
Western Europe was almost all constitutional monarchies until the end of WW2 and even then what fucking backing of Tsarist Russia?
The US, France, Britain, and other countries literally invaded the USSR to try to restore the monarchy.
Also who the fuck is trivialising the holocaust now by mentioning it in the same breath as pogroms, as if the scale and systematic nature of the former don’t make them completely disanalogous?
My point is that the amount of antisemitism in the soviet union wasn’t even approaching the level of pogroms, which was much smaller scale than the holocaust.
I reiterate my former point: Fuck off tankie scum.
Oh my god there was antisemitism in the USSR, even among some leadership! Several doctors got killed!
You’re right, a few incidences of antisemitism are the same as the holocaust, or the pogroms that the pre-soviet monarchy backed by western liberal democracies engaged in. Or the antisemitism in the post soviet union liberal democracies. /s
You are a deeply unserious person. And a holocaust trivializer if it “owns the tankies” apparently. Great priorities.
Can you point me to the exact sentence where I trivialised the holocaust? Hint: I didn’t say anything about the holocaust. All I gave you is a link, the rest is your imagination.
You, OTOH, are severely trivialising antisemitism within the USSR. Stop fucking fanboying.
Please fucking what liberal democracies during Tsarist times? England, France, possibly, am I missing one? And none of that antisemitism was home-grown, it was all the fault of those evil foreigners making poor Russian nobles and priests do stuff? The country most busy with fucking with Tsarist Russia, specifically sending Lenin over mind you, was Germany, very much not a liberal democracy. The age of liberal democracies started after WWI.
Oh, so to clarify, you don’t think that the USSR could be described as morally equivalent to fascism?
Only in the sense that it is trivial in scale compared to the alternative socioeconomic systems of the time.
Also a woman, stop being sexist by assuming a male default.
During the Russian Civil War the US, Britain and France sure militarily and financially supported those nobles and priests who did pogroms regaining power. They went so far as to invade the USSR. They had previous working relationships with them and wanted them back in power. The nobles and priests were antisemitic, as were their western partners.
Morally? I’m not talking about morally I’m talking objectively and no of course it was objectively fascist. So was Italy and they didn’t do the Holocaust. So is Scientology, in case you’re looking for an example of non-racist fascists. So are Kahanites and they definitely aren’t antisemitic, being Jews and all that. Your point?
Okay, define fascism in a way that excludes liberal democracies and their colonies or neocolonies but includes the USSR. I dont think you know what fascism is.
They literally committed a genocide in Africa as part of their political project, they wanted to basically manifest destiny the Mediterranean, did you not hear about it because the victims weren’t (conditionally) white? Do you think they didn’t help the Germans do the Holocaust?
Okay this shows me you can’t give a coherent definition of fascism. Also imagine not thinking scientology is racist. Lol.
Lolol are you seriously going to make that argument? Do I need to pull up photos of Jewish people who collaborated with the nazis?
My definition of fascism is the usual one you’ll hear from any anarchist: People who send me to bed. But feel free to read Umberto Eco and observe how the USSR gets a score of 10 out of 14, where of course one would be sufficient for fascism to coalesce. Also how you were all too happy to display rejection of modernism by your implicit dissing of liberal democracies. Please, go ahead, tell me about the grand colonial empire of Estonia! Of Greenland! Of Samoa!
She asked you to give a definition of fascism that doesn’t include the liberal democracies, and you went with "meets some (but not all) of the list from Ur-fascism), a standard that would absolutely include all of the liberal democracies.
If your liberal democracy puts you into a mental health ward or gulag for your opinion about the system it’s not a liberal democracy. ML states OTOH really like to do that. There’s an inherent totalitarianism to them, they demand that everyone thinks precisely like some centralised decision organ decides, and you tankies will even defend that. Note here totalitarian vs. authoritarian: Thought itself is controlled, not just practical behaviour (fulfilling the quota won’t help you, you still can’t complain). That kind of monopolisation of the prerogative of interpretation is a practical sign of fascism, once it is coalesced. The Ur-fascism points are merely crystallisation points.
The very point that you can type all that in (presumably) a liberal democracy without getting disappeared means that you’re not living under fascism.
It’s really something, MLs having so shit takes that you make me defend liberal democracies.
No True Scotsmen ey?
Bold claim; back it up.
Well this is just a factually untrue caricature.
I’m not going to defend something that isn’t even true.
You’ve watched too many sci-fi movies.
Interesting theory; what do you base it on?
No it isn’t.
Never said I was; you were the one who articulated a definition of fascism that included liberal democracies.
Lol, it doesn’t take much.
This is a elementary school misreading of that text, it was explicitly not supposed to be a litmus test.
Marxism is literally a modernist philosophy, liberalism is rooted in the enlightenment era. Have you opened a history book in the last 5 years?
Marxist democracies > bourgeois oligarchy aka liberal democracy
Disagreement is treason (elementary school dismissal without argumentative engagement), reference to your precious cult of tradition (Nazism is also modernist you muppet) which you of course misread all the time that’s another strike for Newspeak your “Marxist democracy” is neither of the two, lastly the equation of bourgeois oligarchy with liberal democracy (one does not imply the other), that’s strike four, obsession with a plot and/or the enemy is simultaneously weak and strong, could go either way. Maybe just popular elitism.
As your lawyer I counsel you to continue posting.
Source?
Lol. Yes trying to return to an imagined past and having an intellectual tradition are the same thing /s
By that logic basically all ideology(including yours) is fascism, and to not be a fascist we cannot learn literally anything ever about politics.
You said I was rejecting modernism by rejecting liberal democracy, which is literally rooted in enlightenment ideas. I was saying you are not making sense, because you are saying I’m rejecting modernism when I’m rejecting enlightenment era ideology.
How about another strike for literally knowing what words mean and using them properly? You did not say modern, you said modernism. If you didn’t want to be misinterpreted, do not use language that conveys an entirely different meaning.
I wish I had the confidence to make such bold claims with so little knowledge. Have you even ever read about “dictatorship of capital”? Do you even know what that term means? How about you explain it in your own words for me.
Loling at popular elitism.
Also I will never claim that the current state of capitalism is weak.
Also again you are misreading the 14 points as some litmus test.
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The US, Britain. France.
The US, France, Britain, and other countries literally invaded the USSR to try to restore the monarchy.
My point is that the amount of antisemitism in the soviet union wasn’t even approaching the level of pogroms, which was much smaller scale than the holocaust.
Why don’t you call me woke next, CHUD.
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