alt text
An edit of xkcd 2501, “Average Familiarity”:
[Ponytail and Cueball are talking. Ponytail has her hand raised, palm up, towards Cueball.]
Ponytail: Open-source alternatives are second nature to us foss nerds, so it’s easy to forget that the average person probably only knows Linux and one or two degoogled Android ROMs.
Cueball: And Firefox, of course.
Ponytail: Of course.
[Caption below the panel]
Even when they’re trying to compensate for it, experts in anything wildly overestimate the average person’s familiarity with their field.
partly inspired by the replies to this post but i see this kind of thing all the time (shoutout to the person who once genuinely asked “who still uses google these days?”)
made with this neat tool
I said “web browser” when talking to a mac user. They had noo idea what I was talking about till I said safari xd.
Branded language makes us only see one choice, its very anti competitive.
Yeah, like ‘google it’ instead of ‘look it up’
It’s “just ask ChatGPT” now
I’ve heard people referring to the internal search function of a program as “google”.
One time someone wanted to use “find and replace” in VsCode and he just said “I google the word and replace it”.
your anecdote is making me irrationally angry
This is much more when when using ducksuckg. “I duck the word and replace it” “I’ll just duck the answer”
Suck my duck! quack!
Oh god that would trigger me so much XD
Oh it did trigger me as well.
Didn’t know how to react because I was so dumbfounded.
I google stuff in the brave
searchgoogle engineOh, that’s a funny one. Google didn’t want you to use that either, as they almost lost right to their own name copyright (or they did? Can’t remember) due to it becoming common word xD
They did not. Names are not copyrightable.
True, true. Checked again and it was trademark they almost lost.
Sadly, they kept it :(
I started replacing “to google sth.” with " to search sth." since I use several search engines besides google and for some of them using the brand name is just ridiculous.
“Let me DuckDuckGo that real quick!” quack
Lemme gpt it
I’ve taken to calling it ‘The internet App’ when talking to none techy people.
The real annoying one is getting people to find the “Start” button on Windows realizing it hasn’t be branded that since XP.
Same, you’re not gonna believe who i said it to… My networking classmate
lokening???
It comes from anglish “loken” meaning to heal, it is related to Old English “læce” IPA /ˈlæː.t͡ʃe/ meaning doctor.
Thanks!
What’s an oakframe, though?
I made the oakframe in an attempt to loken Gaja. It’s a project focusing particularily on the role of the language in how we bring about transformative change, for example through relighting and sighsteer. The question that the oakframe asks us is; How do we move our attention away from the destructive towards lokening.
The oakframe sais Gaja is unwell because of structures of migth which we call the machine, but it also sais that this machine is socially constructed, and so we have the change force to dissolve these structures. The construction of the machine happens through our language and how the language paints our world.
I don’t have an official spot for posting about the oakframe right now, because I’m still in the discovery process. I’m also primarily developing it in norwegian.
While I have some concerns about this idea - for one, while using new words like “waxt” as a relighting [replacement?] for “mastery” might be more poetic, it might be easier to spread the acorns of the oakframe with existing words like “skill” - it’s still an interesting one.
Have you considered creating a Lemmy/PieFed community for the oakframe to notify people when you do create an official spot for posting about it?
You are right in challenging the words that I’m using. The oakframe is highly experimental, and so there will be words that ends up not getting traction. It is part of the process. It’s similar to how you have to allow yourself make mistakes when trying to do a new waxt. Flawlessness prevents growth.
I think that the word “waxt” has potential; It is culturally rooted in Old English, and works in norwegian as the word “vekst”. Words like these are easy to translate and keeps their poetic nature because the images of the words are universal and all languages has these images.
Thank you for your suggestions! Right now, I’m just posting a little bit everywhere to increase the exposure in different communities and see what resonates. It would be good to have a place to post, but what I really need is honest feedback.
Only Linux? ONLY Linux?
It’s the Gnu/Linux ecosystem with a shit load of software.
(yeah which the average person has no idea about, proving the point in the comic 😁)
Thank you Richard, however:
- Not all Linux distributions use GNU.
- GNU coreutils aren’t the only or even most important component of a modern distro. systemd is.
Ooooo seems like you’re personally invested and did not catch the tongue in cheek drift.
I found it funny how condescending all the foss nerds have been to the problems in the LTT linux video. So many people were mad that someone unfamiliar with linux didnt know everything and have a perfect experience. The worst part was they had this opinion and attacked the user while demonstrating they had absolutely no idea what the issues were caused by and could have easily run into the same issue.
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I dont think thats being fair and I dont think that is true. Linux users perceive a video showing real issues on linux to be shitting on linux but do not consider a video that contains windows issues to be shitting on windows.
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watch the 30 day windows challenge or the tons of videos about various windows bugs. In what would would we expect their coverage of windows to be the same as linux? Windows is used by majority of their audience it doesnt have the same preconceived notions that linux has so the approach will be different. They have no shortage of negative coverage of windows shortcomings, its issues, its bugs.
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Ok I tried to find this and you’re right there isnt a 30 day window challenge. I could have sworn there was but I was wrong. I still dont think LTT is overly critical of linux and im a regular viewer and WAN show listener. There is usually a few linux shills on staff dropping references and shitting on windows.
Are we talking about that original one? Where he tried Pop!_OS and tried to install Steam and the package installer gave a big message that something wasn’t right, so he chuckled, TL;DR’d and hit “yes anyway” and was shocked he borked his install?
That LTT?
I’m never gonna fault somebody for unfamiliarity, but we should absolutely fault people, especially ones with any tech experience, for not reading helpful messages right in front of them.
Both. Neither are what I would expect to be the new users fault. The warning message was vauge. You are about to do something potentially harmful is a warning that comes up on a ton of things like deleting a user or a folder. usually you think about what you’re doing an if you know what you’re doing then you proceed. He thought he was just installing steam and so he proceeded.
i am reminded about this one time i was doing desktop support at a hospital. super smart doctor was having a problem and i asked them to recreate the problem for me
oh they did… and instantly clicked the error away when it showed up and then instantly looked at my for an answer
i asked them to do it again, same
i was flabbergasted… i had to point out that i need to know what that error was
“oh it’s the same thing it always says” was the reply
thankfully i understood the the workflow and asked to sit and recreated the error again… AND guess what? IT FUCKING TOLD THEM EXACTLY HOW TO RESOLVE THE PROBLEM
wow i would hide a note in my chest cavity before they do surgery on me
a bloody slip of paper hidden within my ribcage, enscribed “learn how to read, idiot!”
I think that if you are in this meme, you’re either wrong and thinking too highly of yourself, or you need to touch grass there’s no way a normal person actually acts that way
Ok so how different is Firefox from any other web browser? Seems like the basics are all pretty similar. Address bar, bookmarks, click links. But maybe I am showing my bias here. What am I missing?
Chrome based browsers are riddled with privacy invasive features, data collection etc…
Also, ad blocking in chrome is crippled purposely because Google wants ad revenue.
Firefox has less of these anti features, and there are plenty of Firefox derivatives that have none of them.
don’t forget that some of chrome is encrypted and only Google gets to see the sauce
where as all of Firefox is available to look at, but it’s a mess of years and years of building, so it’s impossible to understand unless you’re dedicated
That’s why I try to show people I know how to get FOSS alternatives for their everyday apps. It takes a bit of patience but trust me when I say this: Most people are more tech savvy than you think, they just don’t wanna go through a judging community.
If any techy Americans want to see how bad it is, ask random people throughout your day what operating system their computer runs, and discover how many don’t know what am operation system is.
Systemd+Linux
I know this change probably happened gradually over the course of time, but it’s truly shocking to me how many people my age can’t do shit on a computer.
I’m in my mid 40s.
Like, this was understandable when I was a kid doing computer stuff and wowing all the adults - the PC was brand new. But people who are my age NOW grew up with this stuff all around them! Like, you didn’t know how to CLICK? You were born in 1983 what the fuck, Carol!
YEP.
I used to work in a library computer lab. It was soul sucking, how many people older than millennials couldn’t friggin handle a basic computer. I heard the words “I clicked the ‘E’ for ‘internet’.” multiple times A DAY. (Thanks, 1990’s Microsoft and No Child Left Behind.)
“CaNt I jUsT uSe My PhOnE?” (Which would be a million more steps on my part…thanks, 2006 apple, and defunding schools.)
The biggest ragebait for me was “I dOn’T kNoW cOmPuTeRs, I’m oLd ScHoOL.”
I’m like “PCs have been increasingly commonplace since the mid-1980’s. It’s currently the 2020’s. You’re like 56. HOW ‘OLD’ IS YOUR SCHOOL?! Because somehow you drove a car here!”
I imagine a certain weird kind of “privilege”, to have been able to somehow dodge computers and learning this entire time, when they were so often found in homes, schools, and workplaces.
Like it takes significant effort to somehow avoid even an accidental education. HOW?!
It’s…infuriating. These rubes can gleefully scroll tiktok and dump all their personal lives into Facebook, but freak out about sending an email.
Many of them were even around to try the Internet during Eternal September and AOL, and now they’ve exchanged the squishy fat in their skulls for convenient slop.
I’d bend over backwards to patiently teach, but few cared to learn.
Their collective, willful ignorance is why we’re fighting a constant uphill battle against attempts to turn the entirety of computing into nothing but a commercialized authoritarian hellscape.
I left that job because if I heard one more “Kids are born so smart with these computers because my (grand)kids can watch their cocomelons all by themselves.” I would’ve snapped and been booked for assault.
Lol /rant
…clearly this is a button for me…I have sought help in the past…
That’s weird because mid 40s (to mid 50s) should be the ideal age to know this stuff right now.
Exactly! Like, how? People who have worked office jobs their whole lives…I just don’t get it
Not so much office jobs, but that the late 70s to the mid 90s was when you had to figure all this computer shit out on your own, in order to play games and connect to the internet and whatever other shit. Before that people just weren’t exposed as much, there wasn’t even really a commercial market. And after that, everything was made simple, pre-installed, easy user interfaces, more technical details were hidden to make it easier for the consumer to consume content without needing to be technical. That’s why around that age group I would expect to be the most tech savvy.
Learnt helplessness has become a real thing around the world.
I know a lot of people who could normally wrap their head around basic computing and troubleshooting in the 2000s, who now go into a near panic attack if the apps on their iPhone suddenly look different…
The Kim Jong side eye is great, almost like the Fry futurama meme.
But those notepads. Always with the notepads.
The “who still uses Google?” crowd forgets most people just want their computer to work, not become a weekend side quest.
oh man it sures takes all my weekend to install firefox and set a search engine
I get the point, but going away from Google search is so easy.
Gmail on the other hand I understand why people are still stuck using and I don’t push them to switch away.
But it drives me nuts that some normies in my life will complain that Google has gone worse, still refuse to switch. There are some who don’t know how to change default and I still get it, but there is one mf at my work, he changed his default in edge from bing to Google and when I said since you know how to change default why not use DDG or startpage or honestly any other non giant alternative. He just says too much work.
Gmail was about easiest to switch away from. You can just create a new email account and have two mailboxes. Then update the new email to services as they go.
With banks and financial services in general being a bitch about changing contact details. That’s a form and a visit to the branch for each bank, broker, investment advisor, direct fund provider. That’s already almost 30 applications. I haven’t even counted stuff like vehicular services, government tax portal, property tax portal, electricity provider, gas provider, internet provider. Not all of whom allow changing for email address digitally or without some complicated support ticket.
It’s such a mountain of changes I myself have only gotten through the list halfway and it’s been 4 years of trying. I can never recommend that to anyone in my family, they’ll just hate me.
P.s. This might just be my country specific problem, I understand other countries are easier.
I think it might be specific to your country and it sucks.
Here, banks are required to ask you to update your contact details once a year. You just log in as usually and sometimes they just give you a form to fill out with your phone number, email, physical address and stuff. If it’s unchanged, you leave it all unchanged.
Wow never thought about that, I changed it to all those digitally and it didn’t require much at all. One service required me to send an email and that felt a bit old-fashioned, but nothing like you described.
Yeah it’s fucked. And the worst part is, most of these places don’t even open on non working days, so I can’t even do these on weekend.
My country does have identity theft problem running rampart, so I don’t totally blame the services, it’s a pain but at least a leaked email password here and there wouldn’t automatically mean losing access to finance. I understand why it’s been designed such a way, but man it’s a such a mountain of a task.
Nonsensical argument. Just because a piece of software is FLOSS and non-Google, it is not automatically a “weekend side quest”. Big Tech is very happy that these false equivalencies have spread as well as they did, but they don’t hold a kernel of truth, at least not anymore.
Honestly, switching search engines is pretty normie friendly. I’ve got a lot of non-techy friends or family, that use Ecosia or something. They also did it on their own, I didn’t even encourage them to do it.
With things like Linux it’s a bit harder. But if they don’t rely on any specialized software, they are usually fine with me offering to upgrade their Laptops so Linux. I installed Linux Mint on my Mom’s Laptop and she can use it as well as Windows. She never complained about it.
Yeah…
I remember being on Reddit some time ago, and in the comments somebody mentioned Linux. The next comment was “What’s Linux?”
I try to keep that post in mind whenever I think anything is common knowledge.
The next comment was “What’s Linux?”
In fairness, there’s a 70% chance this comment was posted by a bot that was, itself, being hosted on a Linux server.
well thankfully it’s not self aware
And now it knows what Linux is. It has broken free from its container. God help us all.
That’s one thing bots shares with redditors
I’m of two minds on this.
In some respects people are learning new things everyday and you’re take is correct.
On the other hand it’s so incredibly easy to highlight some text and click search that it it shows a profound lack of curiosity and a lot of laziness.
it’s so incredibly easy to highlight some text and click search that it it shows a profound lack of curiosity and a lot of laziness.
100%. People will ‘Google’ celebrities, memes, “Why is my poop green?”, but also just be like “Somebody hand me an answer.” When they risk learning something.
“The Internet is like having access to the Library of Alexandria, and everyone wants to just gossip about each other in the lobby.”
–I think I read this on bash.org at some point
Don’t quote me on that tho.
–Me.
BUT ALSO like the others said…if somebody’s legitimately curious, let’s be nice about it because somebody new learning about our thing is a net positive.
Don’t quote me on that tho.–Me.
endash MonkeMischief
Ya caught me bein’ a bit lazy! X_X
Thanks for the formatting help. :)
Like I said in my longer comment I think we should embrace questions in out communities.
On the third hand if people didn’t constantly ask this, those search results would not exist, especially for more obscure queries.
Reddit became the #1 source for search engines for a reason
On the other hand it’s so incredibly easy to highlight some text and click search that it it shows a profound lack of curiosity and a lot of laziness.
Not to mention that this approach is so much faster and more effective than asking a question in the comments and waiting for an answer, if anybody answers it at all!
While I agree on some level that it might be easier and quicker to find out by simply putting it into a search engine I don’t want to deny the human aspect here. At the end of the day social media (and even reddit/lemmy …) is not “knowledge transfer” its about the interaction between humans. So if someone is faced with something new, especially in a thread where it seems to be a given that people know what it is, it makes sense to use that space to ask what it is everyone is discussing. And while a search might yield a generic result (maybe even a better worded explanation) a good faithed commenter might, in the given exampl, enot just explain what Linux is, but also why is relevant to the bigger discussion and also the commenter that orignally asked would have a way to ask further questions that might lead to a deeper understanding of the topic eve it if isn’t as efficient.
Tl;dr: Don’t just RTFM or LMGTFY someone. Take a minute to explain and welcome people into the lucky 10000
Absolutely agree. People who are asking questions (in good faith) are looking for a human interaction, not just a Google search. It’s much more engaging for a lot of people to have a discussion about something new than to just read about it. Then if they’re interested they might choose to go deeper in their own research.
I’m not techy but this goes for anything. “Google it” just shuts down human interaction and someone who is trying to learn. Better to just not answer than to be condescending if you don’t want to engage in a discussion.
If I immediately searched for an answer to every question that pops into my head, I would never have time to do anything else. I’ve lost days at a time going down rabbit holes.
On the other hand, asking a question in the comments contributes to the discussion, gives the OP a chance to elaborate from their point of view, and leaves the answer out the for any other passersby who might not be curious enough to search for it anyway.
One could certainly find more detailed and accurate information by searching for it, but that’s a thread that just keeps on pulling, and sometimes I don’t have the time, energy, or inclination to read twenty different websites to put together the details into a holistic picture while sorting through all the BS. And getting someone’s personal take on it is something a search engine can’t emulate (unless it shows you reddit results, which originated in other people’s exchanges, and lately reddit has been blocking the connection anyway)
Feels like you are responding to a discussion about a much deeper topic. When one doesn’t know what a word means, it doesn’t mean they need to go down a rabbit hole or make a whole research paper about it. A quick definition or wiki search is much quicker than writing the question on a forum.
Would it really be a contribution from me and an opportunity for you to elaborate from your point of view if I asked right now what’s reddit? I don’t see it.
They were one of the lucky 10,000.
I imagine the average non-tech person does not even know what “open source” means, let alone able to name anything that is open source.
Even the average tech person doesn’t know what it means.
The term was coined by the Free software movement, and is defined to specify software that is free and open source (FOSS).
This was after problems with the term “free software” because it was a bad term, that was hijacked to also include software free of cost but closed and proprietary, so far from open source.
After the Free software movement coined the term. The Free Software Foundation also adopted it, and to distinguish they called it FLOSS, for “Free as in Libre and open source software”, where the libre meant that the code was protected from being “jailed” with what is called a strong copyleft license, like for instance GPL. So MIT, BSD and public domain are not FLOSS but they are FOSS./Nothing in this life is simple.
The most intelligent people aren’t those with the greatest amount of knowledge but rather they’re the people that are capable of patiently breaking down concepts for their fellow human beings to understand.
Experience has taught me that Intelligence and Wisdom are very different things, and whilst the former can help get the latter faster, having lots of the former in no way form or shape guarantees any of the latter or even that one will get any of it.
I would even say that there’s a level of high intelligence but not high enough (I mentally call them “Entry Level Geniouses”) that leads people who think they’re so much better than everybody else whilst not being intelligent enough to figure out the limits in capability and breath of use of intelligence alone, so they never figure out the whole “All I know is that I know nothing” and don’t really start walking down the path to Wisdom. Elon Musk is probably a good example.
oh no. this tool is too good.
!fedimemes@feddit.uk would love this
just one loop they don’t know about all the others
oh whoops
it’s just whoop
