The direct statements I’ve made are directly against that. You’re arguing in bad faith if you’re going to put words in my mouth for me and insist I said what I didn’t.

I can have a discussion about the present without focusing on the past or future. Saying that it is metaphysics is a non-sequitur. Not everything has to be viewed historically.

What you’re doing is you’re using dialectical materialism as a veneer to deflect criticism here.

You’re saying that, why should I believe that’s actually the case?

Censorship is always done with some sort of “positive” narrative tied to it.

Give me one example of a “metaphysical analysis” I made. One.

No you didn’t, but you can feel free to think that.

The rest of what you’ve said doesn’t apply to me since, as I said, I never said it was permanent/static.

One point I will respond to is: again, I didn’t say they should be judged by future standards. There are places that are much better for queer people today compared to china. Today, not future.

“My insistence on never believing a word a Chinese person says”.

You mean that literal ONE guy on this thread? Yes, he didn’t have any compelling points. Next.

Oh, you are definitely being hypocritical, having an issue with “phrasemongering” and then proceeding to do it yourself.

I never said history was metaphysical or wasn’t something that progresses. As long as you keep reading things into my statements you’re going to keep responding to arguments I never made.

That’s not what I said. Under the veneer of censoring capitalism, you allow broader censorship.

I’m not saying we shouldn’t support China, I’m saying we should call it out for the BS that it does actually do, and not treat it like divinity beyond criticism. Every time I make any criticism of China, the responses are apologetic at best.

Those issues aren’t “invented”, but I won’t go over those points again.

I didn’t say it’s permanent. It’s common sense that everything is temporary. If you’re reading that into my statements, that’s on you.

Re: chauvanism and dogmatism. What was that thing you said earlier? Phrasemongering? Sounds like. I’ll add one: hypocrisy.

I don’t fucking care what you think lol.

I beg to differ.

Yes, that’s the communist/Chinese defense, except it also translates to an easy excuse for other, illegitimate reasons for censorship.

Don’t like a certain guy? Censored!

You say legitimate criticism isn’t censored, why should I believe that?

If they can use censorship to oppress queer people they could do it oppress others.

It passes in terms of what democracies are in practice but the political suppression, surveillance, and censorship that China is known for its anything but democratic.

You did? I must have missed it, last I recall the first thing you did was point to future projections to defend China, not say that China does have a problem with oppressing its queer people (I said it because it didn’t seem like you were about to).

It’s almost as if China is this immaculate state of perfection that can’t actually have real problems in the way it does things. I have yet to see you make any effort to criticize China so far.

future “potential” isn’t my concern here, as I said— I’m talking about how the country currently is.

What are you even saying? Preventing independent journalism is oppressive towards the working class now? Censoring the media is oppressive towards the working class?

If my criticisms of your reasoning/the facts you provided appears as dogmatism to you, that is not my concern.

Whether or not the country calls itself democratic isnt relevant.

Engage with this: why does Russia have high approval rates?

If you’re not defending repression, then please call it what it is: repression.

Self-evident? No, I gave reasons.

I have elaborated and expanded upon my reasoning for the things I said and could continue doing so against what you said, but something tells me you’d respond the same way with some wild reframing of what I say that’s misrepresentive and it’s not really something I’m interested in.

My point is that the forms of oppression that occur in China aren’t exclusive to the capitalist class, and remain something I oppose.

Which stands.

Dogmatism? And what about you?

You didn’t engage with my argument, so I won’t with yours either.

Let’s call it phrasemongering.

They’re still banning TV shows/clips that feature queer stories or characters, there’s been literal police raids where people have been asked to remove rainbow articles of clothing, rainbows are censored on TV. This is all very recent stuff within the past five years.

Idk man, seems like they’re desperate to erase our existence if you ask me.

Even if it’s not “as bad” as it once was, and if it “has potential”, that’s not where it is right now. Which is that it’s an oppressive place for queer people right now, factually. Stop defending that.