I’ve been to your country. Many times. The ignorance call out holds no weight for me. I’ve lived the online surveillance and lack of access to sites or services I wanted. Hell even SSH connections are speed limited and frequently get a TCP reset to mess with them. Why? Because they can tunnel HTTP traffic.
Not everyone has a VPN (keep arguing for paying for a foreign service for internet access though) and you continuously avoid talking about how end to end encryption is not an option while touting “real democracy” which is laughable and not the point we were discussing which is your assertion that online surveillance in China is no worse than elsewhere. It is measurably worse.
Lack of end to end encrypted messaging is fundamentally bad in my viewpoint. All arguments against allowing it pale in comparison to the chilling effect it has on open discourse, hell even between a wife and husband.
Head onto Weibo there and call for “Western style democracy” (even if you don’t agree with it) or criticise the handling of Tianenmen in 1989 and see how quickly you get shut down. It’s not just surveillance, it’s control.
I’m all for digital sovereignty but let’s not pretend there isn’t a massive, massive control element to the lack of freedom there. If you try to argue that I’m afraid our discussion is at an end as I can’t take that viewpoint seriously.
Ive been to your country. Many times. The ignorance call out holds no weight for me. I’ve lived the online surveillance and lack of access to sites or services I wanted. Hell even SSH connections are speed limited and frequently get a TCP reset to mess with them. Why? Because they can tunnel HTTP traffic.
The firewall again isn’t a surveillance tool it’s a blacklist that protects us from the very clear worse option which is a US controlled digital infrastructure. Also you vacationing here really doesn’t do much to assuage ignorance. Plenty of EuroAmerikans vacation across developing countries and are still massively ignorant on how they actually functions. I’d go a step further and say most EuroAmerikans don’t even know how their own country really functions as “lived experience” is only a small part of the puzzle.
It’s not just surveillance, it’s control.
you continuously avoid talking about how end to end encryption is not an option
I’m assuming the choice of the word continuously is an artefact from an LLM considering end to end encryption was only brought up once. Also I very clearly didn’t avoid talking about it I simply pointed out that the most common ones such as WhatsApp are mostly a mix of insecure software and lies, also are largely irrelevant considering the NSA backdoors on every piece of deployed tech in the western hemisphere
You people have fully become the cold war boomers that everyone made fun of in the 90s. If someone has anything positive or informative to say about ZE DESIGNATED ENEMY, you immediately freak out and start calling them a spy. It’s such 12 year old behavior, the defense of a wounded imperial ego.
why the fuck are the mods removing the replies to you?
Check the modlog, we can still see the comments if we want to, and they state the reasons for removal there.
Most of the time something gets removed because of bigotry or being an asshole (I’ve seen people the mods agree with also have their comments removed when being too inflammatory, just so you know).
“Ohhhhh” points “must be an llm!!! (Now we can all dismiss them! Convenient!”
The LLM accusation was after a rebuttal, and then followed by another point, not an excuse to avoid engagement. You can’t be for real.
I don’t work for the government. I do however have friends who are party members (shouldn’t be surprising considering slightly over 1/14 people are) and I did work alongside the CPPCC for a period and many of my classmates from my master’s in Marxist theory were doing it to work towards civil servant positions. Even besides all that I interact with my local party office fairly regularly to provide feedback as do many others.
You can check the modlog or DM the mods and ask I’m not a mod I also didn’t report them so your guess is as good as mine.
I very clearly didn’t dismiss any of his points I just pointed out that continuously didn’t make sense considering we only brought encryption up once prior to this comment and I had responded to it at that time I didn’t dodge I also then responded to the point at hand again anyway so idk why you’re lashing out. I didn’t dismiss him.
This is just typical chauvinist dehumanising bullshit. “Anyone who doesn’t accept the western line on China is a bot or a paid shill” you should probably do some introspection on why you react so violently to a Chinese person providing a more accurate view of their country.
LLM? No, continuously was a deliberate choice. I don’t see what’s wrong with it.
I’m using the example of end to end encryption to show how online surveillance there is measurably worse.
Your assertion was that online surveillance there is the same as elsewhere. That’s ridiculous. That’s the starting point and it’s what I’m sticking to. Lack of E2E is just such an obvious example of how it’s worse.
You’re making assumptions about back doors in all Western tech. China has them.
I can use any E2E encrypted platform I choose. You can’t use any. That’s worse.
You’re making assumptions about back doors in all Western tech.
It’s not an assumption it’s proven real
PRISM: Allowed the NSA to access data from major tech companies, including emails, documents, and photos.
XKeyscore: Enables the NSA to analyze global internet data, making it easy to track individuals’ online activities.
Tempora: The UK’s GCHQ tapped fiber-optic cables to collect vast amounts of data, sharing it with the NSA.
Boundless Informant: A data visualization tool that documented the NSA’s global data collection effort.
All revealed by snowden. If you think that they stopped any of this or this was all they were doing you are so incredibly naive it’s amazing you lived past 12.
I have no issues with people using llms to help them format and formulate responses into coherent comments I just think it’s important to read over the output carefully hence I responded to the points while still pointing out it made some common llm errors that he must not have noticed. Why are you so aggressive?
I’ve been to your country. Many times. The ignorance call out holds no weight for me. I’ve lived the online surveillance and lack of access to sites or services I wanted. Hell even SSH connections are speed limited and frequently get a TCP reset to mess with them. Why? Because they can tunnel HTTP traffic.
Not everyone has a VPN (keep arguing for paying for a foreign service for internet access though) and you continuously avoid talking about how end to end encryption is not an option while touting “real democracy” which is laughable and not the point we were discussing which is your assertion that online surveillance in China is no worse than elsewhere. It is measurably worse.
Lack of end to end encrypted messaging is fundamentally bad in my viewpoint. All arguments against allowing it pale in comparison to the chilling effect it has on open discourse, hell even between a wife and husband.
Head onto Weibo there and call for “Western style democracy” (even if you don’t agree with it) or criticise the handling of Tianenmen in 1989 and see how quickly you get shut down. It’s not just surveillance, it’s control.
I’m all for digital sovereignty but let’s not pretend there isn’t a massive, massive control element to the lack of freedom there. If you try to argue that I’m afraid our discussion is at an end as I can’t take that viewpoint seriously.
The firewall again isn’t a surveillance tool it’s a blacklist that protects us from the very clear worse option which is a US controlled digital infrastructure. Also you vacationing here really doesn’t do much to assuage ignorance. Plenty of EuroAmerikans vacation across developing countries and are still massively ignorant on how they actually functions. I’d go a step further and say most EuroAmerikans don’t even know how their own country really functions as “lived experience” is only a small part of the puzzle.
I’m assuming the choice of the word continuously is an artefact from an LLM considering end to end encryption was only brought up once. Also I very clearly didn’t avoid talking about it I simply pointed out that the most common ones such as WhatsApp are mostly a mix of insecure software and lies, also are largely irrelevant considering the NSA backdoors on every piece of deployed tech in the western hemisphere
So you work for the Chinese government.
The question is, why the fuck are the mods removing the replies to you?
“Ohhhhh” points “must be an llm!!! (Now we can all dismiss them! Convenient!”
Fuck off with that shit. You’re the one talking like a paid government shill on lemmy of all places.
Holy shit the cope lol
You people have fully become the cold war boomers that everyone made fun of in the 90s. If someone has anything positive or informative to say about ZE DESIGNATED ENEMY, you immediately freak out and start calling them a spy. It’s such 12 year old behavior, the defense of a wounded imperial ego.
Check the modlog, we can still see the comments if we want to, and they state the reasons for removal there.
Most of the time something gets removed because of bigotry or being an asshole (I’ve seen people the mods agree with also have their comments removed when being too inflammatory, just so you know).
The LLM accusation was after a rebuttal, and then followed by another point, not an excuse to avoid engagement. You can’t be for real.
I don’t work for the government. I do however have friends who are party members (shouldn’t be surprising considering slightly over 1/14 people are) and I did work alongside the CPPCC for a period and many of my classmates from my master’s in Marxist theory were doing it to work towards civil servant positions. Even besides all that I interact with my local party office fairly regularly to provide feedback as do many others.
You can check the modlog or DM the mods and ask I’m not a mod I also didn’t report them so your guess is as good as mine.
I very clearly didn’t dismiss any of his points I just pointed out that continuously didn’t make sense considering we only brought encryption up once prior to this comment and I had responded to it at that time I didn’t dodge I also then responded to the point at hand again anyway so idk why you’re lashing out. I didn’t dismiss him.
This is just typical chauvinist dehumanising bullshit. “Anyone who doesn’t accept the western line on China is a bot or a paid shill” you should probably do some introspection on why you react so violently to a Chinese person providing a more accurate view of their country.
LLM? No, continuously was a deliberate choice. I don’t see what’s wrong with it.
I’m using the example of end to end encryption to show how online surveillance there is measurably worse.
Your assertion was that online surveillance there is the same as elsewhere. That’s ridiculous. That’s the starting point and it’s what I’m sticking to. Lack of E2E is just such an obvious example of how it’s worse.
You’re making assumptions about back doors in all Western tech. China has them.
I can use any E2E encrypted platform I choose. You can’t use any. That’s worse.
It’s not an assumption it’s proven real
PRISM: Allowed the NSA to access data from major tech companies, including emails, documents, and photos.
XKeyscore: Enables the NSA to analyze global internet data, making it easy to track individuals’ online activities.
Tempora: The UK’s GCHQ tapped fiber-optic cables to collect vast amounts of data, sharing it with the NSA.
Boundless Informant: A data visualization tool that documented the NSA’s global data collection effort.
All revealed by snowden. If you think that they stopped any of this or this was all they were doing you are so incredibly naive it’s amazing you lived past 12.
All I can say is cope.
Why are you talking to an llm? Don’t accuse people of bullshit like that then go on to prove you don’t even mean it by engaging.
I have no issues with people using llms to help them format and formulate responses into coherent comments I just think it’s important to read over the output carefully hence I responded to the points while still pointing out it made some common llm errors that he must not have noticed. Why are you so aggressive?
Because I didn’t make any LLM errors. I didn’t use an LLM and every post I’ve made in this thread fits my posting style exactly.
If you say so