I love signal and use I daily but I will admit the lack of self hosting is the biggest red flag for me. And that the servers are all in USA.
Unfortunately, I don’t have any alternatives that are as readily accessible and easy to set up to others. XMPP I guess is really the best bet for true privacy but a lot of people I talk to would be unable to grasp how to set it up and use it correctly.
This is normal for “nonprofit” companies. The former head of Mozilla was paid 6.1 million in 2024.
is the argument they shouldn’t be paid money for their work? or maybe signal shouldn’t be hiring at competitive salaries for highly skilled labor?
Well, the only person on the list with “developer” in their title has the lowest salary, the executives are paid more. And you will not in a million years convince me that corporate suits are doing skilled work in a way to deserve more compensation than people actually making the product.
Well, the only person on the list with “developer” in their title has the lowest salary,
Unsurprisingly.
that’s a fair comment I don’t know what they do either.
having seen a few of these org charts this could be much worse. there are 4 salaries related to software and technical improvements of the app and platform.
most ppl underestimate what kind of infrastructure is required to make anything work at planet scale, including auxiliary functions. I’d be much more interested in where the funding is coming from.
Their job is to ensure the nonprofit doesn’t suddenly start making something which can actually help them hide from the US government. Which would be possible since they have the talent.
Unbearable: This was the last time i donated to signal. Next time i’ll donate to some small foss-projects.
How does this compare to salaries for comparable positions at comparable for-profit companies?
It’s kinda the point of donations that they can afford to hire people whose labor costs that much.
Ah another hitpiece on Signal huh? They must be doing a lot right.
well yes, taking millions from the US government to dupe people like you into slathering yourself in metadata is the right move. redditors will justify anything once locked into the circlejerk
Signal is the only way I’ve been able to get my friends and family onto an E2E messaging app. Before this, they were all using SMS and WhatsApp. Signal is how we survived ICE in Minneapolis and organized to stop a bunch of jackbooted fascists from kidnapping all of our neighbors and deporting them to unknown countries. I have a lot of respect for the folks at Signal as a result.
I get that you all are on better platforms or whatever, but I don’t appreciate the dismissive shit that I’m seeing in these replies. Especially when it’s about one of the first privacy-oriented apps that normies get started with. You have some information about Signal that shows it’s shitty or a honeypot? Great, then post it. I’d genuinely love to see it (and not in a “post it so I can argue with you like an annoying redditor” kinda way). But this shit about high salaries at a non profit is not convincing to me and none of your replies here are doing your cause any service.
my family and friends are intractable
You’re probably annoying + not my problem. You clearly aren’t very knowledgable about this, so I doubt you would even be able to explain it to them. XMPP and Delta Chat are easier to set up. You’re just arguing that laziness is a virtue.
Signal is how we survived ICE in Minneapolis
Serious “it was revealed to me in a dream” shit that most people would think was excessive if I made it up as a joking example of Signal defenders. Signal is funded by the US government and collects + leaks metadata. The US government uses metadata to target hacking of the device itself. Metadata is more valuable for surveillance than message content, it is used by police + intelligence to fabricate evidence of “terror networks” including teenagers in Chicago texting each other. Minneapolis drove out ICE because they had guns and physically planted themselves between the psychos and the people they wanted to terrorize. If they were stupid enough to use Signal (or encouraged by people like you) or bring their phones downtown, they will be mopped up before they can do anything useful. Fortunately for the feds, Americans barely even bother to walk around with signs.
The ability of these companies to operate centralized services in countries that serve gag orders should make things obvious, but fortunately you people have been trained by social media to require epistemological proof of wrongdoing.
Literally all the shit talking in this thread is all from that guy. Lots of shit talking, didn’t link a single source to back it up.
The shittalking will continue until the encryption improves. It’s MY thread and you can’t have it!
K
blocked
we calling signal a multi billion dollar company now
the whole context here are the insane payouts for the execs
I have tagged you as Putin Apologist
I don’t know why you think I would care what some random troll on the internet tags me as. Sounds like you should work on your narcissism.
Those are normal salaries for a tech company.
those are not normal salaries for people working on regular open source projects though
Isn’t 1M per year upper middle class in america now?
Oh look the Americans are here to pretend that highly-paid tech workers are normal human beings. I wonder if that has anything to do with the demographics of the Reddit-fuelled Hitler instances. Worth consideration. 🤔
I’ve been reading this thread for way too long looking for you to post a single fucking link or source for your claims. You’ve typed thousands of words and 99% of them are insults to people that are just asking where you got these ideas from. Looks like you’re only purpose is to slam signal without proof. Why?
Damn, I don’t think I’ll make 1M in my lifetime combined.
My nephew, uncle and I have all had medical bills at $1M each
That’s because you live in Europe and stretching a month’s paycheck is easier than a week’s and the Euro is an strogner currency with better anti-gouging laws.
To sum up, 70k euros a month is a lot.
To sum up, 70k euros a month is a lot.
Even 10k euro per month is a lot and will be far better than most other people in Europe and allow you to live more than comfortably.
70k euros a month is insane
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_European_countries_by_average_wage
What a scam…
Hey guys I help orphans on a non profit, I’m a very good person. BTW I get paid 1M a year
I would really love for some of the people here talking about how it’s a good thing this “talent” is retained to explain what it is exactly these people do. I am 100% certain they hate these people in their own companies. But somehow when they see it in an NGO corporate structure it’s all sunshine and daisies.
Non profits are not charities.
These salaries are quite low in the tech sector.
What would be the downside if all companies were non-profit? At first sight, it sounds like a great idea.
The conventional answer is that there would be much less incentive to fund new ones.
Some things need a large investment to start: power plants, cities, factories, space stations, etc. Sometimes more money than the people involved can afford, and you need to ask someone to front the money, they typically get paid with a share of the profits.
Thanks, that sounds very reasonable.
The problem is that NGOs and charities are just a way for capital to manage social stability and will never have that kind of expansiveness. It’s like trying to build socialism by starting worker cooperatives in a bourgeois democracy.
Some companies will be invisible and/or “boring” - nobody ever said: “Oh, I just love my office building’s cleaning supplies delivery contractor, I should donate them again!”
To be fair non-profit doesn’t mean you can’t charge for your services. You just can’t pay profit out as dividends so there’s no incentive to overcharge.
Yes, I understand, but with the same example - I see how people can fing it interesting/motivating building a service like signal, but if I ever opened a b2b household chemistry supply company, I doubt I would be ok if it worked as a nonprofit - what’s in it for me, except money?
Just answering the question: “Why doesn’t everybody move to nonprofit model?”You can still pay yourself a salary. But true, I don’t see why you’d go nonprofit for b2b things. Idea of a nonprofit is usually to benefit the community, by giving customers fair prices instead of skimming a bunch off the top - why bother doing that for b2b when it just increases other businesses margins
What would be the downside if the world was made of pudding
It would collapse on itself, unable to carry its own weight, heating up massively. I consider superheated pudding volcanos something of a downside, personally. I cannot reasonably estimate what might happen in the centre of the world, supercritical fluid doesn’t seem enough. Perhaps nanodiamond crystallisation from the organic parts of the pudding? Also lots of hydrogen release, I’d guess.
My suggestions involves only change of the legal framework. Besides, there are non-profit companies. I’m not sure about details, but for example Velux (windows manufacturer) and Carl Zeiss (optics) are supposed to be non-profits, and Anthropic could say no to the DoD because it’s some sort of not-just-for-profit company.
Is that good?
Raising enough money to pay its employees and expand, but not the most you can without regard to anything else? Sonds like an interesting idea to explore. Or are you talking about super-dense pudding?
“President of Signal getting paid less than a principal engineer” must be the take here.
The same argument applies to Wikipedia: it’s a blessing these people accept working for <1M. They could easily get a job for triple the salary elsewhere but choose to forfeit it for principles.
I could also make a lot of money stealing peoples organs but its a blessing that I don’t do that
Way better than Mozilla.
Coughing baby versus coughing baby
not my circus, not my monkeys
but them positions… as mr. cici famously quipped, that’s alot of buffers
you really need a VP of eng and then a director of eng and further liaisons until you reach an actual engineer for a shop that has one product?
again, what do I care, spend it in good health
This is basically a parody of the problems with NGO corporate compensation, yes, but I feel like everyone is avoiding the elephant in the room & wishing goodwill to people making e2ee messaging that is only safe for the US government to use. Ask yourself, would the German prime minister even trust this shit?
It’s not like Delta Chat main development team is even exempt from this, not sure if OP is aware of this but they want the EU to save them. Fat chance guys! Open source developers need a workers government or total independence, or they will discover they are political tools that can be dispensed with when no longer necessary. Just look at the recent pressure on Linux to eject Russian developers.
And now let’s focus on the only player who is a bit transparent instead of asking how are the others…
Why are they transparent again? Because they’re a US-run NGO operation to trick activists into using police software that leaks their data. NGOs aren’t some kind of anticapitalist freedom fighters, guys, neither is christian charity. There is a reason why the US government and big tech throws its weight around with these things and it’s not altruism.
It has to be their fault. They have to be as bad as the others. And if they aren’t perfect we have to despite them even more than those who don’t even try and who push fascism in our world, right?
Hey man, this thread is well past the point where responding to unhinged comments is justifiable. Not on principle (I would respond to infinity comments online if I could, because I could help so many others. 🫀), but because this level of dogpiling indicates I can easily summon all of you whenever I desire, simply by dropping a truth deuce here. Nevertheless I will make one last, compassionate exception: You need to seek help. Regardless of whether people think responding with disgust to utterly debased reply guys is a sign I am mentally ill, what you’re doing here is grieving malicious advertising claims that were made to you about “activist software”. It remains unclear to me how a messenger being used by Jeff Bezos and US government officials is a mark of reliability and antifascism. There should be no exceptions to our standards and critical thinking. If they seem necessary, it is because the standards and critical thinking are flawed and inadequate.
Regards, Mister Modal at Lemmy.ml
And now we patronize.
It is clear if you just take time to ask. You give of what you know and think as if those were facts.
They are like any company, not big, just any company nowadays. Their limit is the limit of trusted computing (can you make a CPU execute somthing without it knowing what it does). All the rest can be encrypted, at rest and in transit.
Can they resist to threat like your government? First… you call it government but it is all the country. Laws were there before since decadeS now.
Can they resist against the state? They can resist, not vanquish, because it is the State. Can they be shut down? Yes. Do they have the choice? No, or their service wouldn’t exist. Creating a datacenter which is virtualy al,ays on is hard, this is why the full globe gave up except few companies for which is it their main business.
Instead of announcing facts which are just opinions, ask questions. Instead of despiting what you can have, see how to improve it of replace it. But don’t diminish what is offered (ffs it’s even free).
And don’t patronize. If you don’t want to discuss then go post this on Facebook. Your context is the U.S. , it isn’t the world, and this place is called the Web. I’m not perfect, I’m not above you, but at least I know that I am not alone, that my culture isn’t the inly one here, and I can appreciate when somebody wants to help.
So let’s tolerate each other without spitting on what other people may like because “it has your gov money”. All isn’t bad. Look at the NASA, the Internet, … We could live together if we want to. The question is do you and how do you start.
Stop right there and explain to me how Signal leaks communications through Google Firebase and Apple Websocket. You have no right to demand not to be patronized to. You wouldn’t call someone telling you to pull up your fly patronizing, would you?
The concept of trusting a service hosted on AWS in the first place…
I barely use social media at all besides lemmy and the level of smarmy belligerence you’ve used throughout this thread makes me wanna download signal out of spite.
Maybe take a day off mang.
Just hire from the EU. It’s cheaper and they are as competent. A lot more money will be left to hire more staff. I’ve already moved my signal donation to matrix.
The US is a money sink.
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adb is currently main developer for a fork of Delta Chat, a messenger that actually gives you privacy.
you got your messenger recommendation from congresspeople. think about that for a second and how it makes you look to technically competent people like us
But you do realize that DeltaChat also received a quite significant amount of money from the US Open Technology Fund over its course of development and to this day it is somewhat unclear how they fund what seems to be several full time developers?
Lol, I notice he didn’t say anything in reply to this.
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Nice argument dude, unfortunately I don’t share your tendency to form parasocial relationships with US government-funded “privacy software” and prefer recommending open source projects utilizing extensible internet standards for longevity + reliability, so I’m unlikely to be convinced by your playground “what is he your boyfriend” antics. You’re clearly suffering from some serious cognitive dissonance, so take a step back. I don’t know you, I shared this with the community publicly in the hopes people can defend themselves better against surveillance. What motivates you, seriously? Why turn to personal attack? How did you end up at this point in your life?
My advice is learn how to take advice from people who know better than you. It can change your life, and it’s important for operating in communities that value authority from expertise rather than business jargon and ideological slapfighting.
