Counter-counter point: some VR is working. It’s not working for a significant portion of VR hardware, so it is not VR ready.
Windows isn’t ready for much of anything these days, so I’m not really sure why you’re trying to make that comparison with Linux, an OS that prides itself on openness and getting an insane variety of hardware working on it.
I agree that “VR ready” doesn’t have to include every single headset, but that’s pretty disingenuous when a significantnumber of VR headsets use(d) WMR. Linux will not be VR ready until WMR is working.
The number of different branded headsets using WMR doesn’t make it significant in any way. Based on Steam hardware survey, WMR headsets only account for 2.84% of VR headsets. Index, Quest 2, Quest 3 account for ~70% of VR headsets in use, and they all work on Linux. Index just naturally in SteamVR and it’s my understanding that setting up ALVR for the quest ones isn’t that tricky (but I’ve also never tried). And much of the remaining 30% other headsets work with ALVR too.
And the point of comparing things to Windows, is that if we’re stating “Linux isn’t ready for gaming because not every VR headset works”, then by that definition Windows isn’t either. Which you probably agree with, but generally speaking “people” / society view Windows as ready for gaming despite it not supporting every headset.
It’s basically getting into the “Fortnite doesn’t work on Linux” type of situation now. Some things are just never going to work, and it’s because of the creator of those things and not Linux itself, and who cares. Even if the things that don’t work are popular, that doesn’t mean that on the whole, the OS isn’t ready.
Also, according to steam only 1.9% of accounts have a VR headset. That alone makes VR an edge case. but 2.84% of 1.9% is 0.05% of overall steam accounts using WMR. I think Linux can be ready for gaming without WMR support.
That’s kind of a disingenuous citation, since WMR has been officially discontinued by Windows for over a year, and you can’t install it on any new machines, so of course its official use numbers are currently incredibly low.
Five years ago, however, WMR was more than 10% of the VR market (and that’s not even including all of the other proprietary storefronts that these headsets were aimed at), and I’d bet that a lot of people, like me, would still use it if it were better supported. Plus that’s a lot of e-waste that could be reused and repurposed if we could get 3rd party software to work.
Literally the only reason I still dual-boot my gaming PC is because I have to boot into window$ any time I want to use my VR headset, so, while I would absolutely love it if Linux were VR ready, that’s unfortunately just not the case.
Got it. Linux is not VR ready until it supports discontinued headsets. that were previously at 10% of the 2% market, but are now even less (because it’s discontinued, and thus only going to continue to shrink).
Okay here’s what I’m going to posit to you: If you truly care about e-waste, then your stance here is a disservice to that goal. This year, Win10 reaches the end of its service life, and millions upon millions of computers will become “e-waste” unless a switch to Linux is made. This includes countless gaming rigs. Nothing is ever going to reach 100% compatibility, and to argue it should is disingenuous. Right now we need to be working on convincing people that for the vast majority of use cases, Linux is VR-ready, and more broadly gaming ready. Doing so will also help the development of those minority use cases as the overall platform gains momentum.
I do understand that it isn’t VR-ready for you but I don’t think it’s fair to generalise that to everyone else.
I can absolutely generalize that to the literal thousands of other people who might suddenly be faced with the fact that Linux is not VR ready when they decide to switch based on incomplete, intentionally misleading information to try to sell Linux as something that it’s not.
They have a right to an informed decision too, and I don’t think “just lie to them for the greater good lol” is the correct answer here.
Not to mention, “Linux is gaming-ready, as long as you don’t need 100% VR headset compatibility” still has the capability to draw in a ton of new people.
From what I’ve seen, almost all advice about making the switch to Linux is along the lines of “try it out” or “dual-boot Windows” so I fail to see how anyone is going to be seriously inconvenienced here.
As well, marketing in general is full of embellishments to the truth. Microsoft lies, Google lies, Apple lies. To turn around and say that Linux isn’t ready for gaming when (using your charitable 10% figure) 0.2% of gamers won’t be able to use it, is ridiculous.
You got lied too by Microsoft on the promise of hardware support and they pulled the plug. It feels like now you’re trying to lay the blame at Linux’ feet instead of copping that on the chin.
From what I’ve seen, almost all advice about making the switch to Linux is along the lines of “try it out” or “dual-boot Windows” so I fail to see how anyone is going to be seriously inconvenienced here.
This seems like even more of a reason to be up front about it then, and add “not all VR headsets work” to the list of caveats for people switching along with “you might not be able to play your favorite predatory multiplayer game”.
Yes, Micro$oft is a shitty company that lied to and shafted its customers, which is why it seems really odd to me to argue that Linux should be doing the same thing instead of being better. And by better, I don’t mean they have an obligation to support my headset or anything - just that we should be honest about the fact that Linux doesn’t instead of falsely acting like it does with misleading blanket statements like “VR works on Linux” when that’s just not true.
Counter-counter point: some VR is working. It’s not working for a significant portion of VR hardware, so it is not VR ready.
Windows isn’t ready for much of anything these days, so I’m not really sure why you’re trying to make that comparison with Linux, an OS that prides itself on openness and getting an insane variety of hardware working on it.
I agree that “VR ready” doesn’t have to include every single headset, but that’s pretty disingenuous when a significant number of VR headsets use(d) WMR. Linux will not be VR ready until WMR is working.
The number of different branded headsets using WMR doesn’t make it significant in any way. Based on Steam hardware survey, WMR headsets only account for 2.84% of VR headsets. Index, Quest 2, Quest 3 account for ~70% of VR headsets in use, and they all work on Linux. Index just naturally in SteamVR and it’s my understanding that setting up ALVR for the quest ones isn’t that tricky (but I’ve also never tried). And much of the remaining 30% other headsets work with ALVR too.
And the point of comparing things to Windows, is that if we’re stating “Linux isn’t ready for gaming because not every VR headset works”, then by that definition Windows isn’t either. Which you probably agree with, but generally speaking “people” / society view Windows as ready for gaming despite it not supporting every headset.
It’s basically getting into the “Fortnite doesn’t work on Linux” type of situation now. Some things are just never going to work, and it’s because of the creator of those things and not Linux itself, and who cares. Even if the things that don’t work are popular, that doesn’t mean that on the whole, the OS isn’t ready.
Also, according to steam only 1.9% of accounts have a VR headset. That alone makes VR an edge case. but 2.84% of 1.9% is 0.05% of overall steam accounts using WMR. I think Linux can be ready for gaming without WMR support.
That’s kind of a disingenuous citation, since WMR has been officially discontinued by Windows for over a year, and you can’t install it on any new machines, so of course its official use numbers are currently incredibly low.
Five years ago, however, WMR was more than 10% of the VR market (and that’s not even including all of the other proprietary storefronts that these headsets were aimed at), and I’d bet that a lot of people, like me, would still use it if it were better supported. Plus that’s a lot of e-waste that could be reused and repurposed if we could get 3rd party software to work.
Literally the only reason I still dual-boot my gaming PC is because I have to boot into window$ any time I want to use my VR headset, so, while I would absolutely love it if Linux were VR ready, that’s unfortunately just not the case.
Got it. Linux is not VR ready until it supports discontinued headsets. that were previously at 10% of the 2% market, but are now even less (because it’s discontinued, and thus only going to continue to shrink).
That is correct (your pejorative framing of the situation notwithstanding).
Okay here’s what I’m going to posit to you: If you truly care about e-waste, then your stance here is a disservice to that goal. This year, Win10 reaches the end of its service life, and millions upon millions of computers will become “e-waste” unless a switch to Linux is made. This includes countless gaming rigs. Nothing is ever going to reach 100% compatibility, and to argue it should is disingenuous. Right now we need to be working on convincing people that for the vast majority of use cases, Linux is VR-ready, and more broadly gaming ready. Doing so will also help the development of those minority use cases as the overall platform gains momentum.
I do understand that it isn’t VR-ready for you but I don’t think it’s fair to generalise that to everyone else.
I can absolutely generalize that to the literal thousands of other people who might suddenly be faced with the fact that Linux is not VR ready when they decide to switch based on incomplete, intentionally misleading information to try to sell Linux as something that it’s not.
They have a right to an informed decision too, and I don’t think “just lie to them for the greater good lol” is the correct answer here.
Not to mention, “Linux is gaming-ready, as long as you don’t need 100% VR headset compatibility” still has the capability to draw in a ton of new people.
From what I’ve seen, almost all advice about making the switch to Linux is along the lines of “try it out” or “dual-boot Windows” so I fail to see how anyone is going to be seriously inconvenienced here.
As well, marketing in general is full of embellishments to the truth. Microsoft lies, Google lies, Apple lies. To turn around and say that Linux isn’t ready for gaming when (using your charitable 10% figure) 0.2% of gamers won’t be able to use it, is ridiculous.
You got lied too by Microsoft on the promise of hardware support and they pulled the plug. It feels like now you’re trying to lay the blame at Linux’ feet instead of copping that on the chin.
This seems like even more of a reason to be up front about it then, and add “not all VR headsets work” to the list of caveats for people switching along with “you might not be able to play your favorite predatory multiplayer game”.
Yes, Micro$oft is a shitty company that lied to and shafted its customers, which is why it seems really odd to me to argue that Linux should be doing the same thing instead of being better. And by better, I don’t mean they have an obligation to support my headset or anything - just that we should be honest about the fact that Linux doesn’t instead of falsely acting like it does with misleading blanket statements like “VR works on Linux” when that’s just not true.