Plot twist: Theres still hackers in multiplayer even with all that crap plus rootkit they bundle with.
Yeah I dont need to play any game that requires my to allow spyware.
There are so many good indie and older games these days too.
i wonder, is there a good way to simulate that?
Don’t get me wrong, there’s a lot of bullshit with MS’s push for this shit, but I really don’t agree with the collective freakout about it.
There’s plenty of options. Many desktop mobos and CPUs support TPM2 through bios or firmware updates. Other desktop mobos have TPM headers and the modules go for $12-$30, but you have to track down the specific module compatible with your mobo as there is no standard pinout, even within the same manufacturer. There’s also one PCIE TPM2 card I found, but it’s from a company I don’t recognize and their site has no purchase button, just “contact us”, so that doesnct check out as legit to me.
Lastly, TPM2 has been a standard since 2015, with most manufacturers including it starting in 2016. At some point you have to accept that certain experiences will be unavailable to you without upgraded hardware. 10 years out of a computer before you start hitting hard limitations like this is a fucking great amount of life out of it. Like has always been the case, once it hits a certain age you either accept the lack of support or start going down the technical path with Linux to extend the life further.
The fact you’re getting downvoted is absurd. Mfs really want to play a MODERN TRIPLE A game like Battlefield 6 or Black Ops 7 with hardware from 2014!! You can literally go on used marketplaces and get stuff from like 2018-2019 that would run those games well enough! Hell, I’m pretty damn poor and I live in a country with terrible electronics taxes, and I still managed to get myself upgraded to semi-modern hardware by buying used, or in case of stuff like RAM, getting kits from AliExpress. I have a Ryzen 7 5800X, 32 GBs of RAM that I got from Ali, and a RX 6700 XT, and I see no reason to upgrade it in the next 5 years or so even tho the GPU is like 3 years old!
rofl you think a newer system is actually necessary? What a cucky bitchboi opinion…
We want to do it without providing a fucking urine sample ok
Two toggles on the BIOS that are literally hash checks are an urine sample now? Wow.
It’s more unusual than anything. TPM2 and Secure boot are requirements I would expect from a security compliance checklist and software handling at least somewhat valuable data, like maybe a password vault.
A steam game is the last place I would expect this.
It is for the anti-cheat, it seems, and for the case of BO7 it seems to actually have worked this time. I haven’t seen a hacker at all.
I haven’t either! Because I won’t willingly install a rootkit on my computer or play a game that requires malware…
Especially unusual bc there are kernel level anticheats that work just fine without it
Once you delve into the technical specifics of Secure Boot and the TPM, it’s actually not that unusual. I wrote more detail in another comment on this post, but the TLDR of it is that Secure Boot is meant to enforce the integrity of the boot procedure to ensure that only approved code runs before the Windows kernel gets control, and the TPM 2.0 is meant to attest to that. Together, they make it possible for anticheat to tell if something (like cheating software) tried to rootkit Windows as a way to evade detection.
I don’t agree with the requirement, but it’s not a pointless requirement or some grand conspiracy to make people buy new hardware.
its like you are intentionally trying to misunderstand what they are saying, good work at it. Obviously, they didn’t deem SB and TPM unusual, but the types of software (entertainment industry products) demanding it while the software of the security industry does not.
but it’s not a pointless requirement or some grand conspiracy to make people buy new hardware.
consumers won’t benefit from this functionality, but many industries will in the foreseeable future
You quoted the end of my comment, so you must have read this part:
Together, they make it possible for anticheat to tell if something (like cheating software) tried to rootkit Windows as a way to evade detection.
For the threat model of anticheat software, verifying system integrity is not an unusual requirement.
start going down the technical path with Linux to extend the life further.
linux won’t fix this kind of shit, because this is about an arbitrary limitation of wanting to lock the owner out of their own system. these malware companies won’t ever recognize a free linux setup as “verified”
“There are alternatives! You don’t *have to* own slaves, it’s just an option!”
You’re literally fucking comparing slavery to toggling two fucking things on the BIOS? What the fuck is wrong with you?
Nah fuck that, you gotta go.
Erm, just for the record, the BIOS toggle does nothing to close the backdoor implanted in your system by the NSA and Intel. Would you like scientific papers on this topic?
This probably isn’t the best place to share the fact I learned earlier this week, but did you know that Brazil received almost half of all slaves in the Transatlantic slave trade? Kinda blew my mind. I only ask because of your meme. From Wiki:
Out of the 12 million Africans who were forcibly brought to the New World, approximately 5.5 million were brought to Brazil between 1540 and the 1860s.
I’ve seen this shit reposted everywhere lately, and it feels like a fucking psyop too. Manufacturing some sort of consent.
Lmfao at this one dude literally losing his shit and defending this repeatedly in the comments like a fucking Microsoft white knight
He once got killed by a hacker and lost all his marbles.
He has a monthly keyboard budget also.
What game is it? Name and shame.
battlefield 6 does this, among others
Embark has been killing it. The Finals and Arc Raiders have been filling my multiplayer shooters on Linux needs.
Embark said they’re cooperating with Codeweavers to ensure compatibility with Proton.
This isn’t the Hunt Showdown approach of “we let you in but if we break stuff you’re on your own”, they rolled out a new anti-cheat and said they want us penguins to still play these games
Embark is based!! I am actually ok giving them my money because they treat their customers right!!!
Black Ops 7. Its got plenty of shaming going on for other reasons already but this is the first time ive seen this message.
Does it? Other than the campaign being kinda ass and a bunch of assets being AI I don’t think there’s much to complain about this game. The matchmaking is old school, lobbies don’t disband, and the gameplay on MP is solid.
Also, the fact you’re complaining about hackers on it is funny, considering I have literally seen none in the 25 hours I played the Beta and the 5 hours I’ve played the live version so far. All that happened is the aim assist got nerfed so people who are actually cracked on KBM can actually kill people before getting aimbotted by the thumbless controller players.
Other than a bad campaign, unapologetic AI slop, kernel-level anticheat, a $70 price tag, and being yet another uninspired formulaic installation of a franchise that peaked during the Bush administration, what’s not to like?
Yeah, and then you go back to Steam with your smug-ass smile and boots up Counter-Strike 2 to play the exact same maps with the exact same strategies you were doing in 1999, except now the smoke dissipates with gunfire. So fucking original!
Never played a Counter Strike game, actually!
At least they dont release a new counter strike every year with negative new features and a $80 entry fee, in the process leaving your game from last year to die.
Plus CS is an actual good game, cod is just yearly slop
Funny how you say “So fucking original!” as if you aren’t still booting up COD (the thing that stays the same or gets worse, rather than better).
Not personal, just venting.
As someone who arrrr’d CoD4, MW2, a couple others I don’t remember, and then a friend bought me BO3 for the co-op zombies last year (and my god that menu system is a massive piece of shit), I tried the public beta of 7 like a month ago…
I had to make an account, agree to… 5, I think, different bullshit terms of fuck-you-pay-me, enable SB, figure out the awful menu system again (I’m noticing a trend here), and while the zombies mode was… tolerable, it’s basically the same thing as prior games, just with a new price tag. And, what particularly grinds my gears (assuming the list thus far isn’t bad enough), you cannot download the entire game? Like it requires you to stream it. I have a 4TB raid0 PCIe (add-on style) nvme card, unless the game is a literal terabyte+, I want a full copy. That drive was literally $999 when I got it a few years ago, “I paid for the entire thing and I want to use the entire thing”. Let the console players use their bandwidth to temporarily cache shit, but I have the fucking space, piss off.
Fast forward 10 years when the servers shutter and the game you paid for is missing fucking necessary assets and is thus bricked in a new moronic way. Oh, you wanted to play single player? Hook up for some LAN fun? Nah fuck you, content not available. Retry?
And this shit is $80 base? “I remember when” angry grandpa but they can get fucked. You want $80 for a game that will die in a decade, and I should be grateful for the privilege? Thank you sir, may I 'ave some more?
Maybe I’ll fire up CoD4 again, me and a friend against aimbotting bots. Fun, all local, and Activision can’t nuke it at the flick of a switch.
grumble grumble
Basically any multiplayer AAA slop recently.
AAA in quotes ofc
They certainly leave a lot to be desired, but AAA is just “had way too much fucking money to make/market this”.
Just dont fucking play those games. Simple.
Which is so ridiculously easy in my head. But then I see like 4 million people playing and I’m wondering… Am I the crazy one?
When i see that many idiots being duped it just makes me feel superior~!
>:3cJoking aside, look at how foolish the median person is. That they are average means that literally half of humanity is even more foolish than they are.
Quantity may be a quality all its own but in light of such damning disqualifications it hardly matters at all.
Its gonna be really funny in a few years when we learn that TPM2 / Windows’ Specific Implementation of SecureBoot has a backdoor for the NSA, just like how the Kinect did.
And uh, no, it doesn’t matter if this happens intentionally via collaboration, or not, through incompetence.
Sufficiently advanced incompetence is indistinguishable from malice.
Turns out my ribs don’t actually care whether the boot that cracked them came from a decisive kick or because someone clumsily tripped over me.
(Also sufficiently advanced malice is often indistinguishable from incompetence by design: “oops we didn’t mean to, please forgive us and we pRoMiSe we won’t
get caughtdo it again!”)says horrifying thing
waits for reaction
If positive reaction: all good.
If negative reaction: “Calm down, it was just a joke.”
Yep, that last part is … basically the most important concept of running a large organization, if you’re a corpo/evil bureaucrat.
The obfuscation is the point.
The ‘I thought I was in compliance’ is the point.
The ‘this is too complex to assign blame simply’…
That is the fucking point, of designing and running a system that works in that way.
weaponized incompetence exists at basically all levels of human interaction, alas…
but it’s especially shitty when corpos do it.
I really wish we’d stop fucking around and make executives regret what the people they are literally responsible for do. Their monetary compensation should be consummate with consequences–if they’re making three thousand times the amount of their front-facing employees they should be three thousand times more culpable for the shit their organization pulls.
Ergh this made feel kinda icky, I now want to unplug my 360 from the wall when I’m not using it even though I know the chance of them actually watching me is little more than paranoia
The NSA has something like the 5th or 6th largest data center in existance, its been around for about a decade, in Utah.
They just capture everything, they have wiretaps on all the trunk lines that feed into undersea cables going international, they work with every major ISP, basically every major city in the US has a building where there are a bunch of floors for major ISPs/TelComms, and a bunch of floors for DHS, FBI, NSA, (Not the) CIA, etc, where those trunk lines come in.
For over a decade now, the problem is that they have so much data that they don’t know what to do with it, how to search through efficiently.
Or, well, that was their problem.
Enter Palantir, whose intial early whole thing as a company was developing ways to prioritizes and rapidly search through astounding amounts of data.
… You aren’t paranoid enough.
I just won’t play such games. Simple as.
Way I see it, there’s two ways to address the “cheating” issue in multiplayer online games.
First, let’s establish that game cheats typically involve using another application to modify the game’s running code while it is loaded in memory.
Historically, anti-cheat has largely taken a “reactive” approach. Try to detect the hook / modification taking place, ban the player if it is detected. These systems and bans were often circumvented. There are entire games that I stopped playing because the experience was ruined for me - GTA Online and the late stages of Titanfall 2 are standouts in my mind.
With how the Windows device security landscape has changed In the 2020s (MacOS has had something similar for ages), there’s now the option of taking a “proactive” approach by preventing application memory from being tapped in the first place. These technologies, notably Secure Boot and TPM, help mitigate rootkits and malware that might steal sensitive information from application memory, as well as paving the way for other protection measures like disk encryption.
And that’s the main part they’re interested in - by ensuring the entire process up through the kernel cannot be tampered with, the anti-cheat is going to be highly effective at pre-empting anyone from attempting the cheat to begin with.
It really sucks that, in the curent landscape, that means there are a handful of games that I can’t play on my Linux devices. But it also makes sense - Proton runs with many layers beneath it, which would make it trivial to tamper with memory and engage in cheating.
I’m hopeful that we’ll someday see a solution that opens up the opportunity for the same degree of integrity protection in Linux so that anyone can enjoy any game on the operating system of their choosing.
Regardless of what others have to say about EA or the franchise (and boy do they have their issues), Battlefield has always been a beloved series for me. I’m having a blast in Battlefield 6 and I have yet to encounter any cheaters. Previous entries in the series would see me hopping to a new server whenever I encountered one or, on some occasions, ending my play session out of frustration. Anecdotally, the cheating felt much more prevalent before.
I have a lot less time to game than I used to, so that time is sacred to me. While I’d obviously prefer another way, maintaining a Windows system and enabling two BIOS settings (well, leaving them enabled - they’re on by default) has been worth it for me.
That’s a false dichotomy though. There are ways to prevent cheating that don’t rely on the security of the client against the owner of the device on which the client runs (which is what both of what your ‘ways’ are).
For one thing, it has long been a principle of good security to validate things on the server in a client-server application (which most multi-player games are). If they followed the principle of not sending data to a client that the user is not allowed to see, and not trusting the client (for example, by doing server-side validation, even after the fact, for things which are not allowed according to the rules of the game), they could make it so it is impossible to cheat by modifying the client, even if the client was F/L/OSS.
If they really can’t do that (because their game design relies on low latency revelation of information, and their content distribution strategy doesn’t cut it), they can also use statistical server-side cheat detection. For example, suppose that a player shoots within less than the realistic human reaction time of turning the corner when an enemy is present X out of Y times, but only A out of B times when no enemy is present. It is possible to calculate a p-value for
X/Y - A/B(i.e. the probability of such an extreme difference given the player is not cheating). After correcting for multiple comparisons (due to multiple tests over time), it is possible to block cheaters without an unacceptable chance of false positives.Effectively doing that server-side would substantially increase the bandwidth requirements though.
If we take wallhacks as an example, that takes place entirely in the local rendering pipeline. In a game like Battlefield or Counter Strike, smoke and foliage are used for tactical purposes.
Aimbots read player location data sent from the server and send input commands to the OS to automate headshots.
Preventing local memory from being read and modified outright prevents (well, substantially raises the skill ceiling) for performing these kinds of hacks. I have a hard time envisioning a server-side solution to those.
security of the client against the owner of the device on which the client runs
That’s exactly who a cheater is though
Nice of Steam to warn you though.
They check the other requirements too, presumably
True
Bro… There is no excuse to have a computer from 2014 anymore for GAMES unless you only want to do light stuff/emulators on it. Like, man, just search on used marketplaces, a B350/B450 motherboard for Ryzen processors costs less than 50 bucks there and they all have TPM capabilities, and you can get a R5 3600 for like 50 bucks 😭
Sorry to see the downvotes buddy, people are cult-ish. You aren’t wrong.
The entire idea of Secure Boot is to verify the boot chain using signature checks to ensure that nothing “unauthorized” runs in the boot process before control is handed off to the kernel. It’s meant to stop lower bootloader stages from silently modifying or hooking later stages.
In theory, it’s supposed to stop rootkits from being able to exist above the OS, hiding themselves while stealing information or influencing programs. In practice, there’s a shit load of badly implemented EFI programs and bootloaders that are signed and later turned out to be vectors for arbitrary code execution (this is why you need the DBX list to be updated frequently).
Cynically, Microsoft probably came up with Secure Boot because that whole rootkit-and-fuck-with-the-kernel thing used to be one of the ways people cracked Windows 7.
As for TPM 2.0, the whole point of it being used for anticheat is because it stores an immutable log of the Secure Boot process and attests to the integrity of the system. If I installed my own Secure Boot certificates and rootkitted Windows for the sole purpose of cheating, the TPM would see that a self-signed executable was used during boot and refuse to say the system was unmodified.
Doesnt help the OP is claiming to be an “unemployed artist from Brazil” who writes like an unemployed gas station clerk from Tennessee.
You are downvoted for your first part. Nobody is dog piling or being cultish, the person is just being a moron.
We know why they might be used, we just dont want video games demanding shit we dont actually need.
You are missing the point entirely. This shit should not be required to play a fucking video game.
You’re supposed to have both on anyways regardless of a game requiring it or not.
Not at all. PCs do and have functioned without, forever.
TPM is enterprise functionality, useless for most consumers. useful for locking down control ower hardware against “unathorized personnel”
Secure Boot is not enough for these malware. They want SB rooted in MS keys. You using a Machine Owner Key? Too bad, go away! they say
all they want is get more control over your hardware, and less of it for you
😂 for WHAT?
Missing the fucking point- you should not give up absolute control of your machine at the lowest level to play a shit game
Secure Boot and TPM are literally two fucking hash checks on boot. Ya’ll kids really fucking need some technological literacy. If you’re too lazy to do it AND too paranoid to even be INTERESTED in knowing what it fucking does you should be nowhere near a damn desktop.
Are you dense? This is about it’s anticheat, the reason for requiring TPM.
Sorry, I’m not the one having a literal toddler-like meltdown cause a game asked for two hardware requirements you can fix in 15 seconds, and if you really don’t want to, don’t fucking buy or play it. Dunce.
You’re the one ignoring the point. This isn’t just about “two hardware requirements”. Again, exercise causality and maybe read the comment (and the thread) before replying.
It’s been 12 hours. Do you feel less agitated now that you’ve hopefully had a nap?
As much as I think that the decision is a bad thing and the justification is extremely shaky, I do find it very odd that anybody is using Windows 11 at all without those things because I was having a hell of a time trying to get it to work even with those things enabled. Granted Windows 11 is also just a piece of shit so who knows?
I’m like, a sysadmin for 30 years…
That’s what’s pissing me off. People still cheat. It’s not that they have these invasive and stupid ways of anti cheats, but at least they work.
And there always will be cheaters. If running a cheat on the local machine doesn’t work anymore, there is nothing stopping someone hooking up an SoC running a inference model analysing your screen and sending inputs to an usb-dongle that emulates mouse input. Can probably be Mass manufactured cheaper than those inflated price tags on those games.
Welp, doesn’t run in proton. Next on the list…
Nice that steam tells you so you don’t have to waste the bandwidth before refunding it.
