My first foray into Linux was through what you’d refer to as immutable Linux; shortly after the release of Fedora Kinoite. I’m literally the embodiment of the antithesis to your statement.
It is very new
This is factually true. So I can’t simply deny that. But being more precise is helpful:
Fedora Atomic, the family of distros that enable uBlue, has been in the works since 2014. This eventually culminated into the release of Fedora Atomic Workstation in 2018, which was the name of Fedora Silverblue before the name change.
The first commit of uBlue as a project happened over three years ago.
They will get a little more respect from me when they stop trying to target programmers and gamers. Because of course everyone uses Steam and VScode. It just feels very much like it is being run by young edgy programmers. It is the same group that is trying to force crappy “dark mode” everywhere.
What’s the bigger program is the lack of internet knowledge about how to fix problems. With Ubuntu and Debian there are tons of stack overflow pages on all of the various issues. Sure things have changed over time but it still the most documented distro. I can look up “how do I fix X Linux Mint” and I will get an answer. With the Bazzite immutable base almost all of the help online will be useless.
So in short I wouldn’t recommend something like Bazzite. Immutable Linux requires that you understand Linux under the hood. Also I am strongly against distros that need to market themselves as gaming.
Bazzite started as a project to resolve some of the issues that plague SteamOS:
Mainly out of date packages (despite an Arch base).
The lack of a functional package manager.
Issues pertaining to persistence of installed software across updates. (Reinstalling that obscure VPN software you spent an hour trying to get working in SteamOS isn’t fun.)
Like, SteamOS is a pretty cool operating system that allows both Linux enthusiasts and Linux newbs to enjoy playing (most of) their favorite games on Linux. But the former may find it too restrictive, while the latter may want to import that experience over to other devices. Bazzite aims to be that solution. Were it not for the success of the Steam Deck (and by extension SteamOS), such pressing need wouldn’t even have arisen. So Bazzite isn’t trying to target gamers as “an easy way to attract users” (or whatever the insinuation may be); its raison d’être is to address SteamOS’ limitations.
Regarding the targeting of programmers, you could be right on that. But I suppose it’s fine as VS Code’s inclusion (and other goodies) is only confined to the respective -dx images. I regard Bluefin (and Aurora; its KDE Plasma spin-off) as the opinionated distro its maintainers like to use for themselves (i.e. programmers). I’d argue this actually makes it suitable for most people. But your average Linux user is a lot more sensitive towards ‘bloat’. So it’s definitely not for everyone.
It just feels very much like it is being run by young edgy programmers.
I guess my reply would be that I simply don’t feel that way. And factually, it’s being worked on by people that work (or have worked) at places like Canonical, Red Hat and (even) Microsoft. So, while that doesn’t necessarily dismiss them as being “young edgy”, it does make it easy to trust and be confident in their proficiency and competence. I wonder what other distros are maintained by such a star ensemble.
It is the same group that is trying to force crappy “dark mode” everywhere.
This is probably some meme or meta joke/reference I didn’t get. Please feel free to enlighten me.
What’s the bigger program is the lack of internet knowledge about how to fix problems. With Ubuntu and Debian there are tons of stack overflow pages on all of the various issues. Sure things have changed over time but it still the most documented distro. I can look up “how do I fix X Linux Mint” and I will get an answer. With the Bazzite immutable base almost all of the help online will be useless.
I admitted to as such in my first comment. But, what if, instead of looking up questions in your favorite search engine, you visit their support channels and get the exact answer within a couple of moments? This last bit has been based on my own experience*.
Immutable Linux requires that you understand Linux under the hood.
Instinctively, I just absolutely have to disagree on this. The most clear-cut counterexample would be how NixOS -the granddaddy of immutable atomic distros if you will- doesn’t adhere to many Linux conventions (including FHS). Therefore, “understanding (traditional) Linux under the hood” might have even been detrimental and wasteful for the many things you’d have to unlearn.
Beyond the overlap in Linux 101 that most distros adhere to and/or the basics everyone should know about their operating system, could you please demonstrate how “understanding (traditional) Linux under the hood” becomes necessary with atomic distributions?
I wouldn’t go uBlue personally. It is very new and I don’t like the focus. Don’t go straight to immutable Linux.
My first foray into Linux was through what you’d refer to as immutable Linux; shortly after the release of Fedora Kinoite. I’m literally the embodiment of the antithesis to your statement.
This is factually true. So I can’t simply deny that. But being more precise is helpful:
Could you be more elaborate 😜?
They will get a little more respect from me when they stop trying to target programmers and gamers. Because of course everyone uses Steam and VScode. It just feels very much like it is being run by young edgy programmers. It is the same group that is trying to force crappy “dark mode” everywhere.
What’s the bigger program is the lack of internet knowledge about how to fix problems. With Ubuntu and Debian there are tons of stack overflow pages on all of the various issues. Sure things have changed over time but it still the most documented distro. I can look up “how do I fix X Linux Mint” and I will get an answer. With the Bazzite immutable base almost all of the help online will be useless.
So in short I wouldn’t recommend something like Bazzite. Immutable Linux requires that you understand Linux under the hood. Also I am strongly against distros that need to market themselves as gaming.
Thank you for the reply! And apologies for the late response*.
First of all, I owe you another apology for the deleted comment; I was still in the process of cooking and accidentally sent the undercooked message.
As per its README (I’m paraphrasing):
Bazzite started as a project to resolve some of the issues that plague SteamOS:
Like, SteamOS is a pretty cool operating system that allows both Linux enthusiasts and Linux newbs to enjoy playing (most of) their favorite games on Linux. But the former may find it too restrictive, while the latter may want to import that experience over to other devices. Bazzite aims to be that solution. Were it not for the success of the Steam Deck (and by extension SteamOS), such pressing need wouldn’t even have arisen. So Bazzite isn’t trying to target gamers as “an easy way to attract users” (or whatever the insinuation may be); its raison d’être is to address SteamOS’ limitations.
Regarding the targeting of programmers, you could be right on that. But I suppose it’s fine as VS Code’s inclusion (and other goodies) is only confined to the respective
-dximages. I regard Bluefin (and Aurora; its KDE Plasma spin-off) as the opinionated distro its maintainers like to use for themselves (i.e. programmers). I’d argue this actually makes it suitable for most people. But your average Linux user is a lot more sensitive towards ‘bloat’. So it’s definitely not for everyone.I guess my reply would be that I simply don’t feel that way. And factually, it’s being worked on by people that work (or have worked) at places like Canonical, Red Hat and (even) Microsoft. So, while that doesn’t necessarily dismiss them as being “young edgy”, it does make it easy to trust and be confident in their proficiency and competence. I wonder what other distros are maintained by such a star ensemble.
This is probably some meme or meta joke/reference I didn’t get. Please feel free to enlighten me.
I admitted to as such in my first comment. But, what if, instead of looking up questions in your favorite search engine, you visit their support channels and get the exact answer within a couple of moments? This last bit has been based on my own experience*.
Instinctively, I just absolutely have to disagree on this. The most clear-cut counterexample would be how NixOS -the granddaddy of
immutableatomic distros if you will- doesn’t adhere to many Linux conventions (including FHS). Therefore, “understanding (traditional) Linux under the hood” might have even been detrimental and wasteful for the many things you’d have to unlearn.Beyond the overlap in Linux 101 that most distros adhere to and/or the basics everyone should know about their operating system, could you please demonstrate how “understanding (traditional) Linux under the hood” becomes necessary with atomic distributions?
deleted by creator