war thing everyone gets so invested in yet no one does anything about beyond participating in thinly veiled socialization rituals and including symbols of support into their wardrobes and memes.
Who cares about genocide and actual demonization of immigrants.
The real issue is that white men weren’t the absolute center of attention for 5 minutes. Ignore the fact that she was replacing a white man, running against a white man, and her VP was a white man…white men are obviously the real victims here! /s
What you call “denying the humanity, feelings, and fears of white males” is a standard experience of every single other group of people (you’re literally doing it to them in the comment I’m replying ) and it stems from capitalist alienation, not “wokeness” or whatever.
I mean… Do you? What things are you doing to address these issues?
Yes. The most basic thing I’ve done was demanding the genocidal party stops doing the genocide if they want my support which I’ve done since oct-8, their refusal to listen doesn’t change my demands or how serious I was in those convictions.
Also, did you assume I’m a white male? I’m not.
Did I? You pushed the white male victimhood narrative and I expressed why thats wrong, that doesn’t change based on your race/sex.
The most basic thing I’ve done was demanding the genocidal party stops doing the genocide if they want my support which I’ve done since oct-8, their refusal to listen doesn’t change my demands or how serious I was in those convictions.
How’s that been working for you?
Did I?
I believe you did. You referred to me “doing it to them (other people)”. I’m other people.
You pushed the white male victimhood narrative
Did I? I didn’t, in any way, make a judgement on the value or ethical implications of the dehumanization of white men (even the poor ones). I didn’t imply it was right or wrong. I merely suggested, sarcastically, that it was a big factor in losing the election.
You seem to be under the impression that this dehumanization is warranted, though. Do you think this mindset helps the problems that our societies and democracies are currently facing?
Do you think ranking people regarding their levels of assumed victimization due to ethnic, sexual or identity backgrounds is something desirable in general?
The blue genocidal party lost just as I told them they would if they didn’t listen and stop doing genocide. So I guess I’ve been vindicated in my demands they stop.
I believe you did. You referred to me “doing it to them (other people)”. I’m other people.
Are you really going to debate bro me on whether I assumed you to be a white male or not?..going so far as to remove context to try and make specific phrasing seem pointed?
What you call “denying the humanity, feelings, and fears of white males” is a standard experience of every single other group of people (you’re literally doing it to them in the comment I’m replying )
You placed “white males” as a standalone group in your comment.
I stated that white males are not seperate from other groupings of people and by separating them into their own group and dismissing the struggles of other groups you are “denying the humanity, feelings, and fears” of all those other groups.
You don’t have to be a white male to do this… obviously…
Did I? I didn’t, in any way, make a judgement on the value or ethical implications…
Oh, you just are a debate bro…hhhfff
I didn’t, in any way, make a judgement on the value or ethical implications
You don’t need to.
I merely suggested, sarcastically, that it was a big factor in losing the election.
So this is when you, sarcastically, pushed the white male victimhood narrative.
You seem to be under the impression that this dehumanization is warranted, though.
What? So you don’t believe in the white male victimhood narrative and weren’t pushing it…but my rebuttal of the white male victimhood narrative signals to you that I support white males being victims…this doesn’t make any logical sense.
Do you think ranking people regarding their levels of assumed victimization due to ethnic, sexual or identity backgrounds is something desirable in general?
No. Hence why I opposed your attempt to “sarcastically” rank white males at the top of a victimization totem pole.
The blue genocidal party lost just as I told them they would if they didn’t listen and stop doing genocide. So I guess I’ve been vindicated in my demands they stop.
Do you think this will have an impact on the actual genocide, though? Do you feel like you’ve done enough? Can you fairly and honestly say this is something you care about if this is your only action regarding this problem?
Are you really going to debate bro me on whether I assumed you to be a white male or not?
Yes, this is definitely what I want to do with my afternoon (this is actually not sarcastic). Did I remove any relevant context? Please elaborate if you care to continue this surreal tangent.
You placed “white males” as a standalone group in your comment.
I did.
white males are not seperate from other groupings of people
dismissing the struggles of other groups
Any chance on giving that statement second thought? I think you’ll find something interesting.
Oh, you just are a debate bro
I’m unfamiliar with the term. Maybe if you clarify I can tell you if I feel identified with the definition.
this is when you, sarcastically, pushed the white male victimhood narrative.
Erm… So by me suggesting their vote was lost, i implied they were victims? I’m sorry but I disagree.
my rebuttal of the white male victimhood narrative signals to you that I support white males being victims
No. I think you may have a fixation with victimhood and its implications on the value and humanity of people, and I think you’ve pushed this fixation in every point during this exchange, projecting it into my arguments.
rank white males at the top of a victimization totem pole.
This is another example of the former. You seem to be under the impression that victimization is a ranking system.
Maybe I should clarify. Under my perspective, everyone deserves to be listened to, have their humanity accepted and treated with respect (even in situations of conflict and mutual destruction). You, me, white males, bolivians, jews, palestines, fundies, tankies, billionaires, criminals, war criminals, nazis, hitler, genghis khan. Everyone.
The reason behind this is that without that basic extension of empathy, all possibilities of consensus are lost before a conversation even begins. Do I always extend these basic forms of empathy to everyone? No, sometimes I’m a dick, but I do try.
My original point was about the consequences of the lack of willingness to convey these basic forms of empathy to white males in the election (this doesn’t imply i consider them victims. I don’t.)
What I’m currently trying to convey now is that victimization is not a ranking system, friend. And voting or not voting for someone is not an effective course of action to solve anything you truly care about.
I’m sorry people you care about are suffering. <3
Edit: I don’t think I did, and I honestly have no use for information regarding your sex, gender or ethnicity.
Do you think this will have an impact on the actual genocide, though? Do you feel like you’ve done enough? Can you fairly and honestly say this is something you care about if this is your only action regarding this problem?
Yes. Trump’s incompetence is much more likely to lead to failure.
No. While you still draw breath and the genocide is ongoing, you can never say you’ve done enough.
Where did I say this was my only action? I specifically called it my “most basic” action, indicating I view it as one of the easiest/least impactful.
Did I remove any relevant context?
Yes, and I provided the context directly under where I accused you of removing it. I was speaking of the “white male” group you singled out in relation to other groups. You made it seem as if I was singling you personally out in relation to other groups.
This is the last I’ll say on it, since we both agree that the sex, gender and ethnicity of the other is irrelevant.
Any chance on giving that statement second thought? I think you’ll find something interesting.
I’ve thought about it and have determined that white males do not face unique forms of discrimination due to them being white males, simply the same capitalist oppressions which used to be reserved for others. So to single them out as a unique group that is discriminated against is not based in reality.
"When you’re accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression "
I’m unfamiliar with the term. Maybe if you clarify I can tell you if I feel identified with the definition.
Someone who’s desire for engaging in and “winning” internet debates is libidinal.
Erm… So by me suggesting their vote was lost, i implied they were victims?
No, suggesting that their vote was lost due to the democratic party “denying their humanity, feelings and fears” implies they are victims of having those things stripped away.
Under my perspective, everyone deserves to be listened to, have their humanity accepted and treated with respect (even in situations of conflict and mutual destruction). You, me, white males, bolivians, jews, palestines, fundies, tankies, billionaires, criminals, war criminals, nazis, hitler, genghis khan. Everyone.
So we have a core disagreement here (though I don’t see the relevance).
Respect is freely given but can be lost. How do you respect Nazis? Baby Hitler did nothing wrong sure, adult Hitler is a different story. We didn’t beat Hitler by hearing him out and defeating him in the marketplace of ideas. We pushed the Nazis in and he ate a bullet.
My original point was about the consequences of the lack of willingness to convey these basic forms of empathy to white males in the election (this doesn’t imply i consider them victims. I don’t.)
Another core disagreement.
these things were conveyed to white males. Far more than any other group. I’m expected to vote democratic party despite a genocide of my brothers and sisters in faith…Dems literally adopted Trump’s white nativist policies to try and appeal to white males and {1}you’re justifying their lack of support while combatting mine…
being stripped of your “humanity, feelings and fears” and having to face a total lack of empathy in the system, would be victimization. It’s just not something they face.
Thank you for taking the time to reply to my comment thoughtfully. I understand our disagreements better now, and I apologize if I came across as arguing in bad faith.
I’m sure you understand my perspective better now, and I appreciate you addressing it with respect.
What humanity? What humanity do the sons of settlers have? What matter are the feelings they’ve used to rule over all and sundry for practically all of recorded western history in some form or another? What “white men” fear sickens me, because all that cohort has EVER seemed to fear was not being on top. Crackers fear that we would treat them as they have treated us; and honestly at this point, it’d be warranted if we did.
That is ‘the quiet part you won’t say out loud’. That is what the cohort you currently bear the water of fears. That you want me to shed tears for that genuinely sickens me, you fuckin loser.
I believe that power grows out of the barrel of a gun, and that if John Brown had shot more colonizing slaver bastards, we definitely wouldn’t be having this conversation right now.
Ermm… should i post pics of my unibrow? My post history is 90% spanish. My entry point is from a chilean server in which I actively participate… Why is this even relevant though?
The only water I’m carrying is the one that nurtures universal empathy. Maybe you should take a sip. It’s very healing.
Ok, non-friend. I’m sorry for attempting to extend consideration towards you.
Removed by mod
Maybe, but I don’t feel particularly invested in any war thing.
Polarization does get to me sometimes, but I feel like my contributions regarding that issue constitute legitimate efforts.
It’s still projection. You are incapable of caring about the genocide of millions, and so you assume that everyone else is too.
P.S.
What makes you think I’m incapable of caring or that i assume others are?
Who cares about genocide and actual demonization of immigrants.
The real issue is that white men weren’t the absolute center of attention for 5 minutes. Ignore the fact that she was replacing a white man, running against a white man, and her VP was a white man…white men are obviously the real victims here! /s
What you call “denying the humanity, feelings, and fears of white males” is a standard experience of every single other group of people (you’re literally doing it to them in the comment I’m replying ) and it stems from capitalist alienation, not “wokeness” or whatever.
I mean… Do you? What things are you doing to address these issues?
Edit: Also, did you assume I’m a white male? I’m not.
Yes. The most basic thing I’ve done was demanding the genocidal party stops doing the genocide if they want my support which I’ve done since oct-8, their refusal to listen doesn’t change my demands or how serious I was in those convictions.
Did I? You pushed the white male victimhood narrative and I expressed why thats wrong, that doesn’t change based on your race/sex.
How’s that been working for you?
I believe you did. You referred to me “doing it to them (other people)”. I’m other people.
Did I? I didn’t, in any way, make a judgement on the value or ethical implications of the dehumanization of white men (even the poor ones). I didn’t imply it was right or wrong. I merely suggested, sarcastically, that it was a big factor in losing the election.
You seem to be under the impression that this dehumanization is warranted, though. Do you think this mindset helps the problems that our societies and democracies are currently facing?
Do you think ranking people regarding their levels of assumed victimization due to ethnic, sexual or identity backgrounds is something desirable in general?
Food for thought, my friend.
The blue genocidal party lost just as I told them they would if they didn’t listen and stop doing genocide. So I guess I’ve been vindicated in my demands they stop.
Are you really going to debate bro me on whether I assumed you to be a white male or not?..going so far as to remove context to try and make specific phrasing seem pointed?
You placed “white males” as a standalone group in your comment.
I stated that white males are not seperate from other groupings of people and by separating them into their own group and dismissing the struggles of other groups you are “denying the humanity, feelings, and fears” of all those other groups.
You don’t have to be a white male to do this… obviously…
Oh, you just are a debate bro…hhhfff
You don’t need to.
So this is when you, sarcastically, pushed the white male victimhood narrative.
What? So you don’t believe in the white male victimhood narrative and weren’t pushing it…but my rebuttal of the white male victimhood narrative signals to you that I support white males being victims…this doesn’t make any logical sense.
No. Hence why I opposed your attempt to “sarcastically” rank white males at the top of a victimization totem pole.
Edit: BTW…did you assume I’m not a white male?..
Do you think this will have an impact on the actual genocide, though? Do you feel like you’ve done enough? Can you fairly and honestly say this is something you care about if this is your only action regarding this problem?
Yes, this is definitely what I want to do with my afternoon (this is actually not sarcastic). Did I remove any relevant context? Please elaborate if you care to continue this surreal tangent.
I did.
Any chance on giving that statement second thought? I think you’ll find something interesting.
I’m unfamiliar with the term. Maybe if you clarify I can tell you if I feel identified with the definition.
Erm… So by me suggesting their vote was lost, i implied they were victims? I’m sorry but I disagree.
No. I think you may have a fixation with victimhood and its implications on the value and humanity of people, and I think you’ve pushed this fixation in every point during this exchange, projecting it into my arguments.
This is another example of the former. You seem to be under the impression that victimization is a ranking system.
Maybe I should clarify. Under my perspective, everyone deserves to be listened to, have their humanity accepted and treated with respect (even in situations of conflict and mutual destruction). You, me, white males, bolivians, jews, palestines, fundies, tankies, billionaires, criminals, war criminals, nazis, hitler, genghis khan. Everyone.
The reason behind this is that without that basic extension of empathy, all possibilities of consensus are lost before a conversation even begins. Do I always extend these basic forms of empathy to everyone? No, sometimes I’m a dick, but I do try.
My original point was about the consequences of the lack of willingness to convey these basic forms of empathy to white males in the election (this doesn’t imply i consider them victims. I don’t.)
What I’m currently trying to convey now is that victimization is not a ranking system, friend. And voting or not voting for someone is not an effective course of action to solve anything you truly care about.
I’m sorry people you care about are suffering. <3
Edit: I don’t think I did, and I honestly have no use for information regarding your sex, gender or ethnicity.
Yes. Trump’s incompetence is much more likely to lead to failure.
No. While you still draw breath and the genocide is ongoing, you can never say you’ve done enough.
Where did I say this was my only action? I specifically called it my “most basic” action, indicating I view it as one of the easiest/least impactful.
Yes, and I provided the context directly under where I accused you of removing it. I was speaking of the “white male” group you singled out in relation to other groups. You made it seem as if I was singling you personally out in relation to other groups.
This is the last I’ll say on it, since we both agree that the sex, gender and ethnicity of the other is irrelevant.
I’ve thought about it and have determined that white males do not face unique forms of discrimination due to them being white males, simply the same capitalist oppressions which used to be reserved for others. So to single them out as a unique group that is discriminated against is not based in reality.
"When you’re accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression "
Someone who’s desire for engaging in and “winning” internet debates is libidinal.
No, suggesting that their vote was lost due to the democratic party “denying their humanity, feelings and fears” implies they are victims of having those things stripped away.
So we have a core disagreement here (though I don’t see the relevance).
Respect is freely given but can be lost. How do you respect Nazis? Baby Hitler did nothing wrong sure, adult Hitler is a different story. We didn’t beat Hitler by hearing him out and defeating him in the marketplace of ideas. We pushed the Nazis in and he ate a bullet.
Another core disagreement.
these things were conveyed to white males. Far more than any other group. I’m expected to vote democratic party despite a genocide of my brothers and sisters in faith…Dems literally adopted Trump’s white nativist policies to try and appeal to white males and {1}you’re justifying their lack of support while combatting mine…
being stripped of your “humanity, feelings and fears” and having to face a total lack of empathy in the system, would be victimization. It’s just not something they face.
Edit: {1}
Thank you for taking the time to reply to my comment thoughtfully. I understand our disagreements better now, and I apologize if I came across as arguing in bad faith. I’m sure you understand my perspective better now, and I appreciate you addressing it with respect.
Peace to you and all those you care about.
What humanity? What humanity do the sons of settlers have? What matter are the feelings they’ve used to rule over all and sundry for practically all of recorded western history in some form or another? What “white men” fear sickens me, because all that cohort has EVER seemed to fear was not being on top. Crackers fear that we would treat them as they have treated us; and honestly at this point, it’d be warranted if we did.
That is ‘the quiet part you won’t say out loud’. That is what the cohort you currently bear the water of fears. That you want me to shed tears for that genuinely sickens me, you fuckin loser.
Do you believe in the universality of human rights?
I believe that power grows out of the barrel of a gun, and that if John Brown had shot more colonizing slaver bastards, we definitely wouldn’t be having this conversation right now.
Then we can agree on something, at least partially. Have a nice day and I’m sorry if I upset you.
I’m not a white male, friend.
Honestly I don’t believe that; but even that’s true, you’re still carrying their water; so you may as well be white.
We’re not fucking friends; and I don’t claim you as kinfolk. “Humanity of the settler”, get the actual fuck out.
Ermm… should i post pics of my unibrow? My post history is 90% spanish. My entry point is from a chilean server in which I actively participate… Why is this even relevant though?
The only water I’m carrying is the one that nurtures universal empathy. Maybe you should take a sip. It’s very healing.
Ok, non-friend. I’m sorry for attempting to extend consideration towards you.