Windows 11 is a strong motivator. I suspect like many other people, the only reason I was keeping Windows around was gaming. But thanks to Proton and the Steam Deck, the number of games in my library that won’t run on Linux is vanishingly small. I deleted my Windows partition a few months ago and haven’t looked back.
More limited, but also less enshittified than Windows.
If you want a good, well-polished experience for certain creative workloads, or even programming, MacOS is great and their Apple Silicon CPUs are excellent.
If you want to do ANY gaming besides WoW (which surprisingly enough has always had great MacOS support) or you can’t stand the lack of configurability, Linux is immediately the superior choice by far.
Nah, even their hardware consists out of laptops with screen protection falling off, phones bending themselves into breakage and cables with the sensitive connectors on the outside so they’ll break often.
Their OS is surprisingly buggy, too.
They’re actually just shit all around, in my experience.
The whole business model of Apple is to force a hardware upgrade cycle on you and force all your devices to be in that same ecosystem.
I mean, I can see the advantages of it on the short term, but on the longer term having stuff that keeps on working even as always even in older hardware (or you just install new hardware under it and it just recognizes it and keeps on working) is a massive benefit versus a $1500+ bill every two five years and having to migrate your stuff.
It does. Gaming on mac is a pain. Gaming on linux is a much better experience, and has much better support at this point. Apple really alienates developers.
I didn’t mean for gaming specifically, probably should have used a transition statement. For creative and professional use cases, macOS is still far far better than Windows. For gaming yeah that’s not your platform, Linux is.
Unless you installed the embedded versions of windows you’ve never been able to do that, best you could do was turn like 5 things off in the features screen.
“I can’t even use my perfectly fine laptop of 6 years old, anymore”
I wouldn’t call your computer not getting updates so you install a different OS “liberating” it.
Also your computer not getting updates doesn’t magically turn it into a brick, you can still use it just fine. This is something I’ve never understood. As long as your web browser still gets updates that’s the biggest security vulnerability that I’d be afraid of. Chrome supported Windows 7 until 109 in 2023, and Firefox ESR is still going until September this year. 10th gen and older intel machines don’t get graphics updates anymore, are those machines ewaste? Shit some shitty laptops never get bios updates and there’s a whole host of vulnerabilities there.
Gaming works pretty damn well as far as I’m concerned, the few that I can’t get to work are irrelevant.
I’m keeping Windows around for work… fuck Autodesk and fuck Dassault. So I am trying to get a VM with GPU pass through to work (had it working once but then I screwed it up and now I can’t seem to get it working again).
Having done the transition some months ago, there is still some stupid shit one has to deal with (especially, but not only, for games NOT from Steam) at times, more than in Windows, but it’s all so much better than it was before and by now quite close to the Gaming experience in Windows.
Then on top of that there are all the the longer term peace of mind things versus Windows: upgrading your Linux costs zero, changing your hardware won’t invalidate your Linux “OEM License” (plus it will probably just boot up as normal with if you just move your SSD to a whole new machine rather than throw you into driver nightmare), games that work in today’s Linux will keep on working in tomorrow’s and so on - this is actually massive advantage of Linux versus Windows which is seldom talked about: more often than not, hardware migration with Linux is to just move your SSD to a whole new machine, with all the stuff just the way you like it and all you files, and it just boots with and keeps on working.
(PS: Especially relevant for gamers who have to upgrade due to the increasing demands on hardware from the gaming side of things even though the hardware is fine for everything else they do in that machine, and who would rather that all those other things they’ve installed and kept on using rather than uninstall after “finishing the game”, just carry on configured just the way they like it and working just the way they’ve always did, even when they do upgrade the hardware because of games. People who are fine with hardware dedicated to gaming and with replacing the whole thing - hardware and software - for newer games, just get XBoxes or similar consoles, not PCs)
Linux not only saves you from enshittification, keeps control in your hands and preserves your privacy, it’s also a reliable and functional long term OS layer for your hardware that doesn’t force hardware upgrades on you.
I dicked around with the VM route for a while and could never really get it working 100% to my liking. There was always a trade-off. I ended up just getting a second PC and tucking it in a cabinet out of sight. When I need Windows I just use remote desktop to connect to it.
the number of games in my library that won’t run on Linux is vanishingly small
at this point, it’s pretty much only about Roblox.
…which I don’t want to play, I’m not happy about my nephews playing, but that seems like the only big one which really continues to struggle on Windows.
edit: that’s from my limited POV, as someone who loves gaming but i don’t follow or try out big new titles, I’m pretty much happy with my 30 favs, trying out like 5 new games a year, usually older or indie titles.
Roblox is about the only reason why I can’t switch my kid’s computer to Linux, they play almost exclusively that and Minecraft. Once win10 goes EOL, I’ll probably start budgeting to replace my laptop with a new PC and give them the laptop. The old PC will then get Linux and handle 3d printer stuffs
I might be out of date but for a long time my 2 nephews (10 and 13, cousins to each other) have been playing Blox Fruits, which I understand is pretty much a standard “grind” MMORPG. (Which I don’t necessarily find that bad; having to put a lot of work in a character and seeing it grow slowly and steadily can be a lesson.) I like how they are having fun trying to coordinate and take out a boss together (sometimes dying all the time), but I suppose other games can give that, perhaps even better-looking ones and certainly ones made by less shady companies. (Oh, and actually working on Linux/steam deck)
So I was wondering if there are other games that I could introduce them to, if only to remind them that world outside Roblox exists. I never played any MMORPG’s (or pretty much anything multi-player, except Minecraft/Terraria/etc. with the kids) so I’m out of the picture. I’ve only tried few in my life and never stuck for long.
Albion Online seemed child-like enough, albeit a little boring for my taste. One I really enjoyed recently is Path of Exile (and I it looks more than good enough to be hard to resist for a kid), but who knows – is that safe for 10 to 13 year olds…?
I’m Linux user since 2008 and as much as I want to agree with you, I can’t. Even if Mac is much closer to Linux with its BSD roots, I probably would choose Windows over Mac. Why? Because Windows is much more open and less restrictive than OS X. And there is the support and compatibility of Steam games (and games in general) in Windows. The hardware repair ability is terrible on Apple too.
Yes, Microsoft is bad, Windows is bad; so is Apple and OS X. I personally can’t live with the restrictions Apple has.
Give it a shot again, something changed recently in Proton (I assume) that made Vortex “just work” for me on my Steam Deck. I didn’t even need to do any fiddling, I just ran the installer exe from desktop mode using Lutris and whatever Proton was latest, and it installed perfectly. Vortex now runs entirely as expected, even from game mode.
Really? The last few times I’ve tried (granted it was a year or more ago) I got like 15 FPS on a heavy modlist running on my desktop, which had a GTX 2080 and was running Arch, btw. Trying to get MO2 to launch the Linux version of Skyrim running via Steam/Proton and not the Windows version of Steam running through WINE was a fun mess to deal with. Once all that was handled, then half of the modding programs (xEdit, Nemesis, BodySlide, etc…) didn’t work with MO2s virtual FS. It was just way too many layers of abstraction to deal with 🤯
Yes, really haha. I don’t think I would consider the mod list I used heavy, at least not graphically. I didn’t use any of those programs you mentioned.
Trying to get MO2 to launch the Linux version of Skyrim running via Steam/Proton and not the Windows version of Steam running through WINE was a fun mess to deal with
I recall using some sort of script that installed MO2 and handled all of this (at least for the Steam Deck).
Either way, I hope their new cross-platform launcher works out well.
Nice, thanks I’ll give it a try again because Windows 10 is really pissing me off regarding how practically anything that you used to be able to easily disable now requires one or multiple registry hacks that may or may not work anymore.
I totally understand you not giving all that a try because while it is a handheld Linux PC, it’s probably more of a pain in the ass to use on that screen and with the standard input (obviously docking it would solve these issues) than it’s worth. I just keep Windows on my Desktop to play a few games, my home server is my workhorse and I have a Linux laptop that work gave me (literally, they laid me off and never asked for it back).
I checked out Mod Organizer 2 recently, but it didn’t support Subnautica the last time I tried it. I only use mods for a few games, line Stardew Valley and the Fallout games.
Literally the only reason I keep Windows around is because modding Skyrim (using MO2, not Vortex) is a nightmare. I use Wabbajack as well, so the idea of installing 500+ mods manually in Vortex doesn’t sound ideal, also since Vortex’s conflict management is an absolute nightmare compared to MO2’s.
Windows 11 is a strong motivator. I suspect like many other people, the only reason I was keeping Windows around was gaming. But thanks to Proton and the Steam Deck, the number of games in my library that won’t run on Linux is vanishingly small. I deleted my Windows partition a few months ago and haven’t looked back.
Install Linux or buy a Mac, fuck Windows.
Don’t buy a Mac. That’s more limiting than a Windows. But yeah install linux.
More limited, but also less enshittified than Windows.
If you want a good, well-polished experience for certain creative workloads, or even programming, MacOS is great and their Apple Silicon CPUs are excellent.
If you want to do ANY gaming besides WoW (which surprisingly enough has always had great MacOS support) or you can’t stand the lack of configurability, Linux is immediately the superior choice by far.
I would like to add that if you want to do any real customization of your setup don’t get mac either.
Oh definitely
Even though I do hate Apple as a company, they do make great products, they just charge out the ass for them
Nah, even their hardware consists out of laptops with screen protection falling off, phones bending themselves into breakage and cables with the sensitive connectors on the outside so they’ll break often.
Their OS is surprisingly buggy, too.
They’re actually just shit all around, in my experience.
I dislike Apple as a company but I love Apple hardware. Old Macs are my favourite thing to run Linux on.
The whole business model of Apple is to force a hardware upgrade cycle on you and force all your devices to be in that same ecosystem.
I mean, I can see the advantages of it on the short term, but on the longer term having stuff that keeps on working even as always even in older hardware (or you just install new hardware under it and it just recognizes it and keeps on working) is a massive benefit versus a $1500+ bill every
twofive years and having to migrate your stuff.It’s more like 6-7 years and the migration tool basically clones your drive in 15 minutes
Mac?! Darwin no, that’s doing the opposite of liberating yourself and it has less gaming than Linux I’d say.
It does. Gaming on mac is a pain. Gaming on linux is a much better experience, and has much better support at this point. Apple really alienates developers.
I didn’t mean for gaming specifically, probably should have used a transition statement. For creative and professional use cases, macOS is still far far better than Windows. For gaming yeah that’s not your platform, Linux is.
I don’t think “liberating” your machine is the reason people are just now getting mad at windows.
It’s all about liberation, I’d say.
That changed with windows 8 12 years ago.
Unless you installed the embedded versions of windows you’ve never been able to do that, best you could do was turn like 5 things off in the features screen.
I wouldn’t call your computer not getting updates so you install a different OS “liberating” it.
Also your computer not getting updates doesn’t magically turn it into a brick, you can still use it just fine. This is something I’ve never understood. As long as your web browser still gets updates that’s the biggest security vulnerability that I’d be afraid of. Chrome supported Windows 7 until 109 in 2023, and Firefox ESR is still going until September this year. 10th gen and older intel machines don’t get graphics updates anymore, are those machines ewaste? Shit some shitty laptops never get bios updates and there’s a whole host of vulnerabilities there.
Oh yeah, it’s been a gradual process.
And not to mention specific equipment such as train management that uses Windows XP, Windows 98 or 95. Just one example.
Gaming works pretty damn well as far as I’m concerned, the few that I can’t get to work are irrelevant.
I’m keeping Windows around for work… fuck Autodesk and fuck Dassault. So I am trying to get a VM with GPU pass through to work (had it working once but then I screwed it up and now I can’t seem to get it working again).
Having done the transition some months ago, there is still some stupid shit one has to deal with (especially, but not only, for games NOT from Steam) at times, more than in Windows, but it’s all so much better than it was before and by now quite close to the Gaming experience in Windows.
Then on top of that there are all the the longer term peace of mind things versus Windows: upgrading your Linux costs zero, changing your hardware won’t invalidate your Linux “OEM License” (plus it will probably just boot up as normal with if you just move your SSD to a whole new machine rather than throw you into driver nightmare), games that work in today’s Linux will keep on working in tomorrow’s and so on - this is actually massive advantage of Linux versus Windows which is seldom talked about: more often than not, hardware migration with Linux is to just move your SSD to a whole new machine, with all the stuff just the way you like it and all you files, and it just boots with and keeps on working.
(PS: Especially relevant for gamers who have to upgrade due to the increasing demands on hardware from the gaming side of things even though the hardware is fine for everything else they do in that machine, and who would rather that all those other things they’ve installed and kept on using rather than uninstall after “finishing the game”, just carry on configured just the way they like it and working just the way they’ve always did, even when they do upgrade the hardware because of games. People who are fine with hardware dedicated to gaming and with replacing the whole thing - hardware and software - for newer games, just get XBoxes or similar consoles, not PCs)
Linux not only saves you from enshittification, keeps control in your hands and preserves your privacy, it’s also a reliable and functional long term OS layer for your hardware that doesn’t force hardware upgrades on you.
I dicked around with the VM route for a while and could never really get it working 100% to my liking. There was always a trade-off. I ended up just getting a second PC and tucking it in a cabinet out of sight. When I need Windows I just use remote desktop to connect to it.
at this point, it’s pretty much only about Roblox.
…which I don’t want to play, I’m not happy about my nephews playing, but that seems like the only big one which really continues to struggle on Windows.
edit: that’s from my limited POV, as someone who loves gaming but i don’t follow or try out big new titles, I’m pretty much happy with my 30 favs, trying out like 5 new games a year, usually older or indie titles.
Roblox is about the only reason why I can’t switch my kid’s computer to Linux, they play almost exclusively that and Minecraft. Once win10 goes EOL, I’ll probably start budgeting to replace my laptop with a new PC and give them the laptop. The old PC will then get Linux and handle 3d printer stuffs
I might be out of date but for a long time my 2 nephews (10 and 13, cousins to each other) have been playing Blox Fruits, which I understand is pretty much a standard “grind” MMORPG. (Which I don’t necessarily find that bad; having to put a lot of work in a character and seeing it grow slowly and steadily can be a lesson.) I like how they are having fun trying to coordinate and take out a boss together (sometimes dying all the time), but I suppose other games can give that, perhaps even better-looking ones and certainly ones made by less shady companies. (Oh, and actually working on Linux/steam deck)
So I was wondering if there are other games that I could introduce them to, if only to remind them that world outside Roblox exists. I never played any MMORPG’s (or pretty much anything multi-player, except Minecraft/Terraria/etc. with the kids) so I’m out of the picture. I’ve only tried few in my life and never stuck for long.
Albion Online seemed child-like enough, albeit a little boring for my taste. One I really enjoyed recently is Path of Exile (and I it looks more than good enough to be hard to resist for a kid), but who knows – is that safe for 10 to 13 year olds…?
It’s Honkai: Star Rail for me.
Petty as it may seem, I’ll begrudgingly dual boot Win10 until H:SR is playable on Linux.
I’m Linux user since 2008 and as much as I want to agree with you, I can’t. Even if Mac is much closer to Linux with its BSD roots, I probably would choose Windows over Mac. Why? Because Windows is much more open and less restrictive than OS X. And there is the support and compatibility of Steam games (and games in general) in Windows. The hardware repair ability is terrible on Apple too.
Yes, Microsoft is bad, Windows is bad; so is Apple and OS X. I personally can’t live with the restrictions Apple has.
Same here. If I could get Vortex Mod Manager to work under Wine/Proton, I wouldn’t use Windows at all.
Nexus Mods is working on an AppImage version of their mod manager that works perfectly in my testing.
Currently it only supports Stardew Valley and Cyberpunk i think.
I’m excited for it to have parity with Windows Vortex.
Give it a shot again, something changed recently in Proton (I assume) that made Vortex “just work” for me on my Steam Deck. I didn’t even need to do any fiddling, I just ran the installer exe from desktop mode using Lutris and whatever Proton was latest, and it installed perfectly. Vortex now runs entirely as expected, even from game mode.
Vortex should be easy to get working, it probably just needs the Dot Net and Visual C libraries installed, which I think you can get via Wine Tricks.
What games are you using it for? I’ve used Mod Organizer 2 for Skyrim SE and it’s worked great on the deck
Really? The last few times I’ve tried (granted it was a year or more ago) I got like 15 FPS on a heavy modlist running on my desktop, which had a GTX 2080 and was running Arch, btw. Trying to get MO2 to launch the Linux version of Skyrim running via Steam/Proton and not the Windows version of Steam running through WINE was a fun mess to deal with. Once all that was handled, then half of the modding programs (xEdit, Nemesis, BodySlide, etc…) didn’t work with MO2s virtual FS. It was just way too many layers of abstraction to deal with 🤯
Yes, really haha. I don’t think I would consider the mod list I used heavy, at least not graphically. I didn’t use any of those programs you mentioned.
I recall using some sort of script that installed MO2 and handled all of this (at least for the Steam Deck).
Either way, I hope their new cross-platform launcher works out well.
Nice, thanks I’ll give it a try again because Windows 10 is really pissing me off regarding how practically anything that you used to be able to easily disable now requires one or multiple registry hacks that may or may not work anymore.
I totally understand you not giving all that a try because while it is a handheld Linux PC, it’s probably more of a pain in the ass to use on that screen and with the standard input (obviously docking it would solve these issues) than it’s worth. I just keep Windows on my Desktop to play a few games, my home server is my workhorse and I have a Linux laptop that work gave me (literally, they laid me off and never asked for it back).
I checked out Mod Organizer 2 recently, but it didn’t support Subnautica the last time I tried it. I only use mods for a few games, line Stardew Valley and the Fallout games.
Literally the only reason I keep Windows around is because modding Skyrim (using MO2, not Vortex) is a nightmare. I use Wabbajack as well, so the idea of installing 500+ mods manually in Vortex doesn’t sound ideal, also since Vortex’s conflict management is an absolute nightmare compared to MO2’s.