No, that’s not what the article says. It doesn’t mention Zionism, not even by inference.
The article points out that when a nation is under attack ideologically, it needs to put security first in order to protect itself from bad actors.
Whether you are for or against Ukraine or Israel is unrelated; the point is that these countries are facing similar challenges—which is demonstrated in this very discussion.
Completely, and why they are so cagey about their ancestors despite claiming the Soviets killed them. They could well be correct about that, for all the reasons they wish to hide.
The current state in Kiev came to power after a neo-Nazi coup in 2014, led by followers in the tradition of Ukrainian nationalist and Nazi collaborator Stepan Bandera. Zelenskyy came to power on a promise to peacefully settle the problem of the seperatist movement in Donestk and Luhansk that grew as a response to said coup, only to double-down on the Ukrainian Civil War.
You’ve repeatedly referenced the Ukrainian Nationalist movement from 1940. Stepan Bandera led a movement against the Soviet Union nearly 80 years ago and he’s been dead for nearly as long.
You’re deliberately misrepresenting the current democratically elected and free nation that is Ukraine today to spread misinformation, amplify Russian propaganda and argue in bad faith.
Of course I know Nazi collaborator Stepan Bandera is long dead. The problem is that his ghost haunts the modern Ukrainian government. Modern groups in power in Ukraine draw on heritage to Bandera, along with his fascist ideology. It’s why there are so many neo-Nazis in Ukraine, openly.
Ukraine is not democratic, the democratically elected state was dissolved in 2014. Ukraine is not free, either. I am not spreading misinformation, nor is this Russian propaganda, nor is it bad faith. I’m simply a communist.
To whichever extent a right-wing movement impacts the decisions of a state, this in my opinion does not eliminate the right for that country to remain sovereign. Many countries struggle with pockets of Neo-Nazism.
You’re right about Ukraine’s freedom and democracy, but only because they are being invaded by a hostile nation. They’re unable to hold free elections due to infiltration and manipulation in the very ways that the article this thread was originally discussing referred to.
I’m sorry to say that your pursuit of support of communism has led you down a dark and toxic path—not through your political preference, but through your alignment with bad actors.
Ukraine’s intense problems with corruption and lack of democracy actually stem from the 2014 Banderite coup. The entry of Russia into the Ukrainian Civil War certainly did not help Ukrainian “democracy,” but it was already over in 2014.
As for Ukraine having a right to remain sovereign, it again returns us to the question of Donetsk and Luhansk. Do they also have the right to remain sovereign, or should they be forced to remain in Ukraine, subject to cultural erasure and mass murder by the Kiev state? For Ukraine to retain its sovereignty, it needs to respect the right of the Donetsk and Luhansk to secede, and sue for peace, not drag out a pointless war that only exists for Statesian profits.
As for communism taking me down a “dark path,” I don’t see how opposing fascism and supporting resistance to ethnic cleansing makes me a bad person, especially because I want the quickest end to the bloodshed possible. I’m advocating for peace, which you confuse for a “dark path.”
Please don’t mince my words. I never alluded to your position being somehow supportive of the awful things you mentioned. Neither of us support fascism or ethnic cleansing. I, too, advocate for peace. We disagree in the manner to achieve that.
As for the “dark path,” I believe that I was clear in partitioning that statement, but let me reiterate: I believe that it has led you to take positions (perhaps unfortunately) aligned with those of bad actors.
Why are the people of Donetsk and Luhansk “bad actors,” and the corrupt Banderites sacrificing and kidnappings workers off the streets in Kiev somehow not bad actors?
lol every time the banderites say the most abhorrent fascist shit you gotta go like “no, akhtually don’t you see he means something wholesome and good” they are nazis bro it’s not that hard, don’t defend nazis.
Not beating the allegiations, it’s basically the same what Israel write, you can see the effects of it in Gaza and Lebanon, just as you could see the effect of the Ukrainian version in Donbas. But i guess that full scale genocide is more medial and morally pure than prevented one.
defending fascist, far-right states are we? the carnage must continue, unnumered more innocents must suffer and die before the modern liberal can admit they’ve been lied to by their own governments? i know by experience that it sucks to own up that you’ve been had (i used to be a unquestioning slava ukrainer) but admitting the problem exists is the first step towards fixing it. in the fight against imperialism both Ukraine('s current government) and Israel (the entire settler-colonial project) are deeply on the side of imperialism, as well as being absolutely fascist states. neither can bring peace for their people or anyone else involved, because they both only exist to provide war for US imperial ambitions.
Ukrainian sovereignty is best achieved from revolutionary defeatism to overthrow the Banderite government. A socialist Ukraine that stands against the infestation of western capital would better be in control of its own interests, and would solve Russia’s security concerns that led to it entering the Ukrainian Civil War. At the present rate, what will remain of Ukraine will be a thoroughly dependent rump state being siphoned of its natural resources by the west.
Not only does Russia have no interest at the moment to annex all of Ukraine, just the pro-Russian separatist regions in the Donbass, but Ukraine doesn’t really have much of a choice to begin with. Every day they lose leverage. Either they draw out the war, forcing Russia into a costlier and lengthier victory, they surrender soon and get to keep as much as possible, or the people can rise and replace the Banderite government with a socialist one. Unfortunately, thanks to the Banderite government targeting leftists for the last decade, the first and second options are the most likely.
“Should” doesn’t really matter in the grand scheme of geopolitics, otherwise Palestine would already be free.
You have a direct line to the interests of the Kremlin, do you?
Either they draw out the war, forcing Russia into a costlier and lengthier victory, they surrender soon and get to keep as much as possible
If Russia has no intention for more, then why would drawing the war out be disadvantageous for Ukraine? Why are you opposed to the war being costly to Russia?
It’s odd to me that you would argue in support of Russia’s good intentions and in favor of Ukraine conceding a second major annexation of parts of a sovereign nation without casus belli. I can only imagine one possible reason and it’s not in the interests of the people of Ukraine.
No ties to the Kremlin whatsoever, I’m just a communist organizer and student of Marxism-Leninism. Part of that is an understanding of dialectical materialism, which helps me identify the underlying material forces at play.
The reason drawing the war out is bad for Ukraine is because it means many thousands more Ukrainians will die for worse terms of surrender. The only group that benefits is the western imperialist class that signed mineral rights and more with Ukraine in exchangd for cash and supplies.
The reason drawing the war out for Russia should be opposed is because Russians are human beings that don’t deserve to die either.
As for not having a casus belli, there are 2 critical ones.
The Ukrainian Civil War, that began in 2014, led to the secession of the pro-Russian Donestk and Luhansk People’s Republics. These people have a right to self-determination, and freedom from the Banderite state. These people are ethnically more Russian, so Russians sympathize with their plight.
The Banderite government was to host missiles on their border pointed directly at Moscow and other major populated cities, with a 6 minute travel time. Rather than let NATO continue to encircle Russia with its imperialist forces, Russia decided to preemptively stop such a threat.
Both of those claims are very contested, surely we can agree on that? Western journalists in the region reported in real time during that period that both these events were driven by Russian operatives. I’m not quick to believe everything I read, but that goes both ways.
The fact that you use “Banderite government”—or “Banderite” at all—and so openly support the Soviet Union to me calls your motivation into question, so yes, I certainly find your position and arguments extremely odd.
That is almost certainly not true, but let’s put that aside as it’s entirely irrelevant. Do you think that the Soviet Union was an exemplary communist state?
In the March 2025 survey, Cato/YouGov asked a national sample of 2,000 Americans aged 18 and older about US fiscal policy, including the following: ‘Do you have a favorable or unfavorable view of Socialism?’ and ‘Do you have a favorable or unfavorable view of communism?
A total of 43% said they have a ‘favorable’ view of socialism, and for those aged 18–29, 62% said favorable. For communism, a total of 14% said they have a favorable view; however, in the 18–29 group, 34% said favorable. That’s about 18 million people. (The findings are estimates: there are an estimated 52 million Americans aged 18–29, so 34% is 17.68 million; 62% of that age group is roughly 32 million people.)
As for my opinion on the Soviet Union, it was enormously progressive. Women gained the right to vote ahead of most western countries. Life expectancy doubled, from the 30s to 70s. Famine was ended. Housing cost approximately 5% of people’s incomes. Working hours reduced, while wages rose. Literacy rates tripled, from the 30s to 99.9%. Workers for the first time in history truly established a state for themselves, by themselves.
Life behind the iron curtain was not as rosy as you make it out to be. I don’t know what your intentions are to argue in favor of it, but I and my family have living memories of how awful it was. I don’t need to hear from an armchair internet historian to make it out for something it wasn’t.
I’m not necessarily saying that communism is bad, but the Soviet Union is not something any of the former Soviet states, Russia included, should aspire to return to.
Same here, though imo first the Ukrainians would need to kick out the US/NATO-backed fascists that are pretending to be a sovereign and functioning state.
If we put aside for a moment whether that’s true or not, what do you think will happen to Ukraine as a nation if it no longer has the support from NATO countries? Is that the outcome you desire for Ukraine?
Did you read the article? It explains what Zelenskyy meant with that statement. It’s even written as a nifty bulleted list.
It’s an article praising the Israel model being applied to Ukraine by a Zionist. I guess you enjoy drinking that hasbara koolaid.
No, that’s not what the article says. It doesn’t mention Zionism, not even by inference.
The article points out that when a nation is under attack ideologically, it needs to put security first in order to protect itself from bad actors.
Whether you are for or against Ukraine or Israel is unrelated; the point is that these countries are facing similar challenges—which is demonstrated in this very discussion.
fucking hell how did I miss this post, this explains why you are so keen on avoiding answering truthfully lmao
disgusting fascist
Holy shit I misread it as Palestine and Ukraine facing similar challenges. This is naked fascism, not just cryptofascism.
explains their attitude
Completely, and why they are so cagey about their ancestors despite claiming the Soviets killed them. They could well be correct about that, for all the reasons they wish to hide.
Holy fucking shit.
Isn’t zelenskyy Jewish why is he a Nazi? Also those bullet points do not help his case lmao. Very Orwellian
Netanyahu is also a Jew and he literally whitewashed Hitler from responsibility for holocaust.
The current state in Kiev came to power after a neo-Nazi coup in 2014, led by followers in the tradition of Ukrainian nationalist and Nazi collaborator Stepan Bandera. Zelenskyy came to power on a promise to peacefully settle the problem of the seperatist movement in Donestk and Luhansk that grew as a response to said coup, only to double-down on the Ukrainian Civil War.
You’ve repeatedly referenced the Ukrainian Nationalist movement from 1940. Stepan Bandera led a movement against the Soviet Union nearly 80 years ago and he’s been dead for nearly as long.
You’re deliberately misrepresenting the current democratically elected and free nation that is Ukraine today to spread misinformation, amplify Russian propaganda and argue in bad faith.
Of course I know Nazi collaborator Stepan Bandera is long dead. The problem is that his ghost haunts the modern Ukrainian government. Modern groups in power in Ukraine draw on heritage to Bandera, along with his fascist ideology. It’s why there are so many neo-Nazis in Ukraine, openly.
Ukraine is not democratic, the democratically elected state was dissolved in 2014. Ukraine is not free, either. I am not spreading misinformation, nor is this Russian propaganda, nor is it bad faith. I’m simply a communist.
To whichever extent a right-wing movement impacts the decisions of a state, this in my opinion does not eliminate the right for that country to remain sovereign. Many countries struggle with pockets of Neo-Nazism.
You’re right about Ukraine’s freedom and democracy, but only because they are being invaded by a hostile nation. They’re unable to hold free elections due to infiltration and manipulation in the very ways that the article this thread was originally discussing referred to.
I’m sorry to say that your pursuit of support of communism has led you down a dark and toxic path—not through your political preference, but through your alignment with bad actors.
Ukraine’s intense problems with corruption and lack of democracy actually stem from the 2014 Banderite coup. The entry of Russia into the Ukrainian Civil War certainly did not help Ukrainian “democracy,” but it was already over in 2014.
As for Ukraine having a right to remain sovereign, it again returns us to the question of Donetsk and Luhansk. Do they also have the right to remain sovereign, or should they be forced to remain in Ukraine, subject to cultural erasure and mass murder by the Kiev state? For Ukraine to retain its sovereignty, it needs to respect the right of the Donetsk and Luhansk to secede, and sue for peace, not drag out a pointless war that only exists for Statesian profits.
As for communism taking me down a “dark path,” I don’t see how opposing fascism and supporting resistance to ethnic cleansing makes me a bad person, especially because I want the quickest end to the bloodshed possible. I’m advocating for peace, which you confuse for a “dark path.”
Please don’t mince my words. I never alluded to your position being somehow supportive of the awful things you mentioned. Neither of us support fascism or ethnic cleansing. I, too, advocate for peace. We disagree in the manner to achieve that.
As for the “dark path,” I believe that I was clear in partitioning that statement, but let me reiterate: I believe that it has led you to take positions (perhaps unfortunately) aligned with those of bad actors.
Let’s be perfectly clear, then:
That’s why Zelensky just had bodies of Banderites dug up so he could rebury them in Ukraine, with honors.
Exactly!
switched out words to help you see why this argument doesn’t work.
Isn’t Bibi Jewish, why is he a nazi?
lol every time the banderites say the most abhorrent fascist shit you gotta go like “no, akhtually don’t you see he means something wholesome and good” they are nazis bro it’s not that hard, don’t defend nazis.
Not beating the allegiations, it’s basically the same what Israel write, you can see the effects of it in Gaza and Lebanon, just as you could see the effect of the Ukrainian version in Donbas. But i guess that full scale genocide is more medial and morally pure than prevented one.
defending fascist, far-right states are we? the carnage must continue, unnumered more innocents must suffer and die before the modern liberal can admit they’ve been lied to by their own governments? i know by experience that it sucks to own up that you’ve been had (i used to be a unquestioning slava ukrainer) but admitting the problem exists is the first step towards fixing it. in the fight against imperialism both Ukraine('s current government) and Israel (the entire settler-colonial project) are deeply on the side of imperialism, as well as being absolutely fascist states. neither can bring peace for their people or anyone else involved, because they both only exist to provide war for US imperial ambitions.
That’s an interesting perspective, thanks for sharing.
As for me, I oppose fascism. I wish Ukraine to remain a sovereign nation.
Ukrainian sovereignty is best achieved from revolutionary defeatism to overthrow the Banderite government. A socialist Ukraine that stands against the infestation of western capital would better be in control of its own interests, and would solve Russia’s security concerns that led to it entering the Ukrainian Civil War. At the present rate, what will remain of Ukraine will be a thoroughly dependent rump state being siphoned of its natural resources by the west.
That’s a roundabout way of stating that it should be annexed by Russia.
Not only does Russia have no interest at the moment to annex all of Ukraine, just the pro-Russian separatist regions in the Donbass, but Ukraine doesn’t really have much of a choice to begin with. Every day they lose leverage. Either they draw out the war, forcing Russia into a costlier and lengthier victory, they surrender soon and get to keep as much as possible, or the people can rise and replace the Banderite government with a socialist one. Unfortunately, thanks to the Banderite government targeting leftists for the last decade, the first and second options are the most likely.
“Should” doesn’t really matter in the grand scheme of geopolitics, otherwise Palestine would already be free.
You have a direct line to the interests of the Kremlin, do you?
If Russia has no intention for more, then why would drawing the war out be disadvantageous for Ukraine? Why are you opposed to the war being costly to Russia?
It’s odd to me that you would argue in support of Russia’s good intentions and in favor of Ukraine conceding a second major annexation of parts of a sovereign nation without casus belli. I can only imagine one possible reason and it’s not in the interests of the people of Ukraine.
you liberals snort russiagate conspiracies like coke, really cooked your brains…
Care to explain? My point was that we can’t know Putin’s intentions.
No ties to the Kremlin whatsoever, I’m just a communist organizer and student of Marxism-Leninism. Part of that is an understanding of dialectical materialism, which helps me identify the underlying material forces at play.
The reason drawing the war out is bad for Ukraine is because it means many thousands more Ukrainians will die for worse terms of surrender. The only group that benefits is the western imperialist class that signed mineral rights and more with Ukraine in exchangd for cash and supplies.
The reason drawing the war out for Russia should be opposed is because Russians are human beings that don’t deserve to die either.
As for not having a casus belli, there are 2 critical ones.
The Ukrainian Civil War, that began in 2014, led to the secession of the pro-Russian Donestk and Luhansk People’s Republics. These people have a right to self-determination, and freedom from the Banderite state. These people are ethnically more Russian, so Russians sympathize with their plight.
The Banderite government was to host missiles on their border pointed directly at Moscow and other major populated cities, with a 6 minute travel time. Rather than let NATO continue to encircle Russia with its imperialist forces, Russia decided to preemptively stop such a threat.
None of this should come across as “odd” to you.
Both of those claims are very contested, surely we can agree on that? Western journalists in the region reported in real time during that period that both these events were driven by Russian operatives. I’m not quick to believe everything I read, but that goes both ways.
The fact that you use “Banderite government”—or “Banderite” at all—and so openly support the Soviet Union to me calls your motivation into question, so yes, I certainly find your position and arguments extremely odd.
Which is it?
Ukrainian Nationalism has been a fascist project since its inception, you can’t oppose fascism and support Banderites.
I never thought I’d live to meet somebody so avidly supporting the Soviet Union. That’s genuinely amazing.
Communism is on the rise globally, in the US a third of young people are sympathetic to communism.
That is almost certainly not true, but let’s put that aside as it’s entirely irrelevant. Do you think that the Soviet Union was an exemplary communist state?
It’s certainly true, according to a poll by Cato Institute:
As for my opinion on the Soviet Union, it was enormously progressive. Women gained the right to vote ahead of most western countries. Life expectancy doubled, from the 30s to 70s. Famine was ended. Housing cost approximately 5% of people’s incomes. Working hours reduced, while wages rose. Literacy rates tripled, from the 30s to 99.9%. Workers for the first time in history truly established a state for themselves, by themselves.
It’s nice that the Cato Institute found 421 people in support of their poll. Can we move on from this nonsense statistic?
Life behind the iron curtain was not as rosy as you make it out to be. I don’t know what your intentions are to argue in favor of it, but I and my family have living memories of how awful it was. I don’t need to hear from an armchair internet historian to make it out for something it wasn’t.
I’m not necessarily saying that communism is bad, but the Soviet Union is not something any of the former Soviet states, Russia included, should aspire to return to.
Are you suggesting that Ukraine may not exist as a sovereign nation due to their current political situation?
It’s also been a CIA and NATO supported nationalist project since the start of the Cold War to the present day.
Same here, though imo first the Ukrainians would need to kick out the US/NATO-backed fascists that are pretending to be a sovereign and functioning state.
If we put aside for a moment whether that’s true or not, what do you think will happen to Ukraine as a nation if it no longer has the support from NATO countries? Is that the outcome you desire for Ukraine?