For the noobs to Linux, heed the words of your endlers: don’t dual boot. The operating systems have a way of killing each other’s bootloaders. It might even run fine for a while, but then one day there will be an update and one OS will be unbootable. Not worth the risk as a noob. If you’re really worried you might need a Windows program, then just run a Windows VM within Linux. If you want to keep the option for gaming, then you could dual boot, but don’t do it on a work critical machine.
I was setting up some template VMs on a fresh Proxmox VE (VM server) yesterday. Total install and troubleshooting times for each template were as follows;
- Linux Mint Debian Edition - 20 minutes
- Windows 10 IOT LTSC - 3 hours
- Windows 11 IOT LTSV - 6 hours, with the benefit of lessons learned from the Win 10 install.
The amount of obscure configs I had to dig up just to get them going was disgusting. Also, why the fuck are so many drivers not in Win10/11 by default, yet Linux has no issue including them all at a fraction of the ISO size?
I believe it’s due to kernel philosophy.
Linux and Mac are a monolithic kernel, which I understand to mean that the entire OS runs in kernel space to operate the compatible hardware. This has the advantage of making sure the OS is in the drivers seat for resource management, and no individual program is easily able to overload the system and create instability, but it may limit the power of some programs and delay compatability of new hardware and software.
Windows, on the other hand, is a hybrid kernel, which means some functions are managed in user space so that a program has more control over the hardware. This can be useful for pushing gaming to the limit or running experimental/custom programs, but it can lead to instability from resource hungry programs or security vulnerabilities from Trojan horses.
As for why their ISO is huge, I s’pose it’s due to all the extra crap they throw in there like AI, pinball, and data collection stuff.
Apologies if I got something fundamentally wrong—there are plenty of bigger nerds than me on here—but that’s my best attempt at explaining the difference as well as I know it.
Your standard off the shelf easy to setup Linux ISO (mint for example) is like 4 GB after install, it includes a whole office suite, a few games, screensavers, GIMP, and a whole bunch of software you may not ever realize is on there or even need.
Did you know many distros standard install includes the GNU C/C++ compiler? Do most people need the GNU compiler? No, but the whole OS and all these tools is already smaller than a barebones install of windows since microslop just ships bloat.
Windows, on the other hand, is a hybrid kernel, which means some functions are managed in user space so that a program has more control over the hardware.
Windows and Linux are both monolithic kernels, in the sense that most device drivers run in kernel mode with kernel privilege. They’re not like Mach or Hurd.
Windows outsourced their device driver development early on to the hardware manufacturers, and they encouraged closed-source drivers with separate source trees and builds. To facilitate this, Windows NT developed a system called plug-n-play (PnP) which searches for and loads driver modules (.sys files) from disk into the kernel.
Linux developed a similar system of loadable kernel modules (.ko files), but their system arrived much later. One reason is that Linux’s GPLv2 license mandates that driver source code be licensed under compatible terms. That and Linux has always been pretty open about accepting driver code into their main source tree. Finally, manufacturers were never interested early on in writing Linux drivers, so the driver development was being done by the community, which was already using the Linux source tree.
So Linux didn’t have as much pressure to develop a loadable module system. So they did it later.
To the present day, the majority of Linux device drivers are submitted to mainline Linux and go through the Linux review process. Windows drivers are mainly developed by third parties, but they do have to go through the Windows Hardware Quality Labs review and testing process.
Apple writes all their MacOS drivers internally, because they are also the hardware OEM.
Didn’t they remove pinball from Windows?
It’s just like Microsoft to remove the one I might actually want out of those three. More pinball, less data collection!
There’s a Linux port of it on Flathub
Yeah I think it was removed in windows 7 or 8.
Don’t worry windows. You may be back as a small virtual machine for some obscure rarely used reason.
Just got my printer working so even my virtual Windows can go away now 🥳
Library, or print at work.
Seriously, library printing is underrated.
My local library lets me print up to 80 pages per week, completely free.
I use WinBoat for work. Easy to set up and does what I need. I definitely prefer this over setting up a VM manually.
If you don’t respect the bootloader, you don’t get a seat at the table.
There’s a chance I’d still have a windows install alongside Linux, if windows would just mind its own business.
Windows modified my partition layout after a forced update. I felt violated…
A pivotal moment in my life was when I first installed Linux to the entire hard disk instead of a separate partition.
I have done it a few times over the years but never on my main driver. Until last month… I bought a new laptop for my business and immediately installed Linux on the entire drive. I never initialized the win 11 that came with it.
So far I have had a few hiccups with getting some things working. I have also yet to find a basic WYSIWYG editor for my very basic HTML business webpage on Linux. So I am keeping my 6 year old laptop with win10 up and going on my desk for now.
What is so precious on Linux that you cannot do on Windows? Dynamic Tiling? - Komorebi. TUI file manager? -Yazi. Custom themes, and bars? -Yep. Bash? -Yep (along with uutils). GPU accelerated terminal emulator? - multiple including Windows Terminal.
What you’re giving up on Linux is most professional industry standard productivity software, and many of the games real gamers actually want to play (not all crap that pirates collect). You’re giving up security by default (Arch, Gentoo and the like along with TWMs will have people storing browser passwords in the equivalent of a text file for just one example). You give up an OS that evolved to deal better without ECC memory (todays Windows is far more resilient to bitflips).
Even FOSS software runs better on Windows. VLC causing Linux to seize was just one of many examples.
So yes, I agree that for 99.9% of people, dual booting is a waste of disk space.
Turn that on its head.
What is so precious on Windows that you cannot do on Linux?
Sell my telemetry to the highest bidder? Give me ads in my desktop? Force AI into every request i make? Capture images of everything I do and store them against my wishes so that malware can come in and access that? You want to be the target of practically every worm/virus/botnet out there? You want what is demonstrably the worst history of security for any desktop OS with one of the most bypassed antivirus systems in existence?
What you’re giving up with Windows are a few handfulls of games with kernel-level anti-cheat that already fail to keep people from cheating. You want to play Roblox right? It’s FULL of players, you must! Fortnight? Super important titles.
Of course then you have things like Outlook that are already being replaced by Electron apps that exactly the same on linux in a browser.
So yes, I agree that for 99.9% of people, dual booting is a waste of disk space.
Right, The only people concerned about Telemetry are conspiracy theorists. The other 80% of people don’t care, and a good amount of them understand that it’s used for improving software.
What Linux advocates call ads are introductions to features and things that would benefit them, and they’re far easier to turn off than switching OSes.
Many of us have been using Windows without ever encountering a virus. -I went out of my way to get one so I could test my skills on it (only time and I’m 55).
There are far more than just ‘kernel level AC games’. We’ve seen this propaganda for years while Proton keeps realease new compatibility updates. Also, even your Linux loving LTT called ProtonDB a what? Only recently did WINE (not Proton) fix the frame timing issue that made some games unbeatable mid-game (far worse than not working).
Most people aren’t bothering with an email client these days.
Right, The only people concerned about Telemetry are conspiracy theorists.
You can call me a conspiracy theorist, I can say you’re a paid troll. That’s easy, this is a fun game.
and a good amount of them understand that it’s used for improving software.
linking a linux sucks community, SURELY that is full of nothing but good intensions and good solid facts.
What Linux advocates call ads are introductions to features and things that would benefit them,
I cannot wait to start benefitting from “7 tips for handling hot summer hikes”, or “Get Skype”, or “Rousey more than ‘most dominate athelete’”
Many of us have been using Windows without ever encountering a virus.
Most of us, of working age in offices the early 00’s have numerous zero day worms. There was no protection.
We’ve seen this propaganda f
The gall of you to call out propaganda, while pointing to a windows propaganda site, while cherry-picking and spilling out bald-faced lies in your post.
Proton keeps realease new compatibility updates.
Tell me, do you want improving software or not, you’re giving out some real mixed signals.
Only recently did WINE (not Proton) fix the frame timing issue that made some games unbeatable mid-game (far worse than not working).
Wine also makes numerous games run at a higher frame rate than windows. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47507150
The real difference is not only is stuff running faster, they’ll keep releasing updates for shit that gets broken, that’s part of understanding how to improve software.
Most people aren’t bothering with an email client these days.
55 and already retired? Man that must be nice.
I have’t seen a company in 50 years that doesn’t use email. And, wasn’t the use of corporate software that doesn’t run in linux one of your primary propaganda targets? You really need to make up your mind on that one.
linking a linux sucks community, SURELY that is full of nothing but good intensions and good solid facts.
I’m proud to be banned from that community, lol.
Don’t know what this guy’s problem is, really. Did Linux kill his parents? Did Linux impregnate his wife? Did Linux kidnap his children?
Did Linux impregnate his wife?
That’s not due until the next Wayland update…
The linux sucks community is his own, and he instantly bans anyone that even posts neutral comments. You have to agree, or you’re not on there. I’m not exactly sure if he’s just a persistent troll or if he has some weird reason to hate linux this much. What’s obvious is, he’s not interested in discussion.
sounds like he’s just windows marketing :)
> What is so precious on Linux that you cannot do on Windows?
Stay private and technologically independent.
Propaganda.
@madthumbs Have you noticed where you are, lol?
Just peek at his profile and it will all make sense.
TL;DR don’t feed the troll.
@orlyowl The guy be like
what does it matter?
What is so precious on Linux that you cannot do on Windows?
Browsing the internet without having my activity reported to Microsoft.
The ‘activity’ makes the OS better by reporting trouble areas to the developers. -Specifically, what’s going wrong for you. Microsoft has been in business for decades and has more than earned trust.
Conspiracy theories don’t make a point.
Microsoft has been in business for decades and has more than earned trust.
They have decades of history of screwing over users, yes. All the more reason not to trust them.
Yeah, I see no examples.
