Oh, that podcast was with Kling, not about him. That is unfortunate.

I remember there was some drama with Ladybird after some he/him pronouns were changed to they/them in the (instructions?). Back then, from my very not-involved point of view, it seemed to come from some sort of misunderstanding/improper pull request. Maybe I was hopeful.
… this lends more credence to my hope being misplaced.