I think this comment is a good example of why people don’t like physical methods. It just seems so hand-wavy, like homeopathic medicine. How do you judge how well it will work in a given situation? Physical privacy is just dependent on too many unknowns. And privacy techniques for the user have not improved in the past 100 years, meanwhile surveillance and location tracking algorithms for the authorities have progressed.

Digital privacy continues to improve every year. Andbody can use Tor and Monero, and benefit from the research and development behind them. Anybody can audit the tech, and build on top of it. Right now darknet markets are clunky to use, but they definitely feel better than they did 5 years ago, and they’ll keep getting better.

Anyways thanks for engaging in this discussing with me, it definitely helped me explore these ideas deeper.

Keep your nose clean out there, you never know whose gonna be looking in 20 years…

depending on your juridiction, the statute of limitations should save you after 20 years :)

I mention “anonymous” in the title, and many times in the post, and explained the scenario at the start of the post. It’s true that the mainstream does not need anonymity, but anonymity was clearly the goal of the post.

And I agree that this method alone won’t save you from the feds. It’s just one tool in the arsenal

Regulation means nothing, if the feds want to track people there’s endless strings they can pull. Plenty of evidence online of feds intercepting packages and bugging devices. They can even use illegal means and then use parallel construction.

On the other hand, just because the feds collect a bunch of dsta to be decrypted later, doesn’t mean they actually will. Encryption is very rarely cracked, it’s far more difficult than tracking people down via camera footage. Not to mention, statute of limitations means that even if they crack it 20 years later, the data might be useless by then.

Fact is, I can send some monero to somebody today and know it won’t be cracked within the year. But if I put on a mask and gloves and try to send a letter in the dead of the night, I know there’s still a chance that I’m caught.

There’s a reason why hackers today choose to use crypto and mixers rather than cash. Same reason why the US criminalized tornado wallet. Turns out, Monero and mixers are incredibly effective.

In the case of buying Protonmail accounts, I don’t think it’s obvious that it changed hands, since again, it just looks like the account user started using Tor, nothing more. The use of Tor is suspicious, but so is any anonymous methods. For example, mailing cash to a email provider is also extremely suspicious, given how much effort one is going through to pay anonymously, and thus it may trigger a cop to immediately start reviewing security camera footage around the mailbox. Any type of anonymity is going to raise eyebrows, but buying accounts from the darknet is imo the safest and most secure method.

But being aware of the tradeoffs is important so thanks for sharing

Fair enough. This is why I mentioned that the darknet method was the most reliable method I found. So far it hasn’t failed me

I’m confused at your point here. First off, there’s very little initial metadata. The seller uses their ip address to make the account, and then you buy the account and start using Tor to access the account. From Protonmail’s perspective, this just looks like somebody made an account and started using it with Tor.

But let’s say there was some usage difference that could be detected. Maybe the seller used the email for Github, and then you started using it for Discord. So what? I think you’re going to have to be more specific about the threat here.

that’s assuming they don’t scan the contents of mail, in which case physical surveillance would include content too.

what remote desktop protocol do they use?

every time I tried using VPN or Tor, they asked for phone number or a second email address. For the second email address, I’ve tried temporary email services but they all got rejected. Any recs?

Ok this is getting far off topic. Monero provides privacy. It’s a lot easier to send money anonymously using Monero than, say, cash or credit. The point that the other commenter made about consumer hardware, is more about decentralization, which some people value and are thus against government-controlled currency like the Federal Reserve. But that’s not why I brought up Monero in the post

the point of the post is about creating accounts anonymously. Try creating a protonmail account using a VPN or Tor, without giving any PII.

You were the one that brought up cash, I was simply explaining that sending Monero is often more private than sending cash

with dragnet surveillance, law enforcement is already investigating everybody. The purpose of buying it on the darknet is that it’s anonymous, so it doesn’t matter if law enforcement investigates it.

harvest now decrypt later applies to cameras too. Install a bunch of security cameras, aggregate all footage, use facial detection, gait detection, predictive algorithms, etc to figure out the motion of all citizens at all times. I would not be surprised if governments were already doing this.

You simply cannot practically “encrypt” physical methods wirh the same amount of entropy that can be used for digital methods. And this is even before quantum-safe encryption.

you’re going to have to explain what you meant by dead slave owner portraits. I assumed you meant dollar bills, but if you want to pay Protonmail using cash you need to mail it over, hence the postal service

it makes it more decentralized, preventing data centers from having a large advantage and mounting 51% attacks

as mentioned in other comments, making burners on Tuta is a pain. You often have to wait 1-2 days before they’ll let you use the account, and often the account gets deleted during that period if it was made over Tor. Out of the 5-10 times I tried, I was only able to make 2-3 accounts. I’d rather pay for a reliable method.

And in my mind, paying is a more sustainable path. Protonmail and Tuta are pro-privacy, ultimately these services just want to avoid people creating unlimited spam accounts. Rotating Tor exits is something a bot can do, and so I wouldn’t be surprised if Tuta started blocking it entirely. Payment is a barrier that doesn’t cost your privacy. Protonmail and Tuta don’t accept crypto during account creation, but darknet markets provide a workaround

used by some other person for some personally identifiable thing (which is why the internet at large trusts that account and why you bought it!)

the internet trusts protonmail because protonmail adds barriers to prevent unlimited spam accounts from being created. Those barriers are IP, phone number, and secondary email. Darknet markets simply provide an alternative path: monetary. But monetary is still a barrier, and prevents spam accounts as well. So imo society should still “trust” it. In other words, a monetary barrier achieves sybil resistance without sacrificing privacy, and I’m all in support of that.

yes, I believe that Tor and Monero are more private/secure than the postal service, just like I believe that 2048-bit RSA is more secure than a padlock

interesting, I have not seen that before but if it helps, no I don’t endorse stealing accounts or buying stolen accounts. Given how easy it is to make a (non-anonymous) Protonmail account I’m inclined to believe that most accounts sold are legitimate, but one should always practice best judgement when browsing the darknet

I think you overestimate the scale. Last I checked there were only like 3-4 sellers. They could easily be making these accounts themselves. If the scale grew larger, people in poorer countries would see it as a way to make a quick buck, and start selling them as well. And if the scale grew to an enormous size, Protonmail would probably just start accepting crypto instead of just letting darknet sellers make all the money.