I’m considering getting a laptop for Linux and want to know a few things before I do. Some important info before I start: I don’t plan on using the laptop for anything too intense, mainly writing, digital art, streaming, browsing, and maybe very mild video editing (cropping at least and shortening at most). I would also prefer the laptop to be inexpensive, preferably under 1000 USD
I mainly want to know if whether I should get a laptop by a manufacturer that specializes in Linux or a laptop that runs a different OS (exp: Windows) to install Linux on later. I’ve also scouted out quite a few distros and have a good idea of which ones I would like using
I’ve already looked at a few mainline Linux hardware producers like System76 but want to know if it’s worth it before sinking money into it
Check out Framework if you haven’t already! https://frame.work/linux
They’re designed to be upgraded and repaired over time so they’re super modular. You can also save some money if you’re not afraid to put it together yourself.
How’s the Camera working on these? On most recent laptops it seems not to be just a camera sensor like in the good ol’ days, but a full blown i2c module, which does a lot of processing before delivering the images, and with rather obscure code that people is really struggling to build drivers for.
Works fine on Linux for me, you sure you mean i2c? I think you mean v4l2 or something, i2c max bitrate is like 500kbit/s. I can check but I’m pretty sure it’s usb or something similar, it works on Google hangouts on Chrome at least, I use my fw for work.
Perfect, thank you! Some laptops these days have increasingly complex camera modules that make having drivers for them increasingly messy.
While I support the framework laptop, OP did also say under a thousand dollars. You cannot really get a framework laptop for that price.
Edit: Thousand, not hundred
You can get a diy base framework 13 with either intel or amd for $849 w/o ram and the ssd, and just purchase those part separately for just about $1000 total.
And if you’re replacing one, you could possibly pull the ram and SSD from it to use in the frame work.
The SSD will need to be an M.2 form factor, and the ram will need to be SODIMM DDR5; both of which are relatively new form factors in the grand scheme of things. The ssd from a former laptop will probably fit, but SODIMM DDR5 is maybe two years old at this point. The older intel models that still use DDR4 are out of stock at this point on the framework website.
True. But framework is an investment in a sustainable future since the mobo is upgradeable.
Mine in in the mail. Got the shipping notification last night. So excited! I didn’t the past year saving up for it. I’m glad to see that everything works out of the box with Fedora.
While the laptops being so modular is really useful, the list of supported OS seem a bit narrow, although that doesn’t mean I’m not considering. Thank you!
Those are the officially supported distros. You can install other ones just fine. I doubt you’d find another laptop that had even just more than 1 officially supported distro.
Yeah, but I’d still like the peace of mind from knowing for sure other distros work, y’know?
Sure, fair enough. There are other distros supported by the community if you want to check that out too.
You honestly won’t find better than the support for framework in the laptop space. The arch wiki entry for it is fantastic, and having multiple supported distros is almost unique.
That does give me a bit of comfort. I’ll definitely have to put it higher up on the board, then! Thanks again, lol
Lenovo is renowned for their excellent linux compatibility. I’m sure you’ll get a bunch of proponents here saying the same.
BUT, oh boy. Don’t get me started…
Too late. Having used various models of thinkpads in recent years, their inconsistent keyboard layouts will drive you absolutely insane. I swear, at this point they’re just fucking with us.
I’ve got one in pieces somewhere, that has/had the ~ key next to the FN key on the bottom row! How the fuck are you supposed to use Linux if you’re ~ key is down there? It’s fucking stupid.
Not to mention their keys have a tendency to break off with just the mildest of fist slams.
AND the latest work-issued recent model is fucking with us again! It has the FN key ON THE LEFT SIDE of the Ctrl key on the left. Who does that? The Ctrl is always the left-most bottom key. Now, every time I fucking go to press Ctrl+something, I end up hitting FN instead.
Fucking morons! At this rate this laptop will also end up in pieces.
So, tldr; Stay the fuck away from Lenovo if you want to use Linux and not end up in prison for vehicular homicide.
Hahaha, I’m the opposite I’ve been so used to the thinkpad fn that I hate using other laptop keyboards.
The Fn and Carl keys can be switched in software. I have a work-issued Lenovo with a similar layout. They can be soft-swapped in the BIOS. There’s also a desktop utility to do the same but I don’t know if they have a Linux version of it. I totally agree, the physical layout is annoying but it has a simple fix.
Oh :( As annoying as that is I can’t bring myself to completely take it off the board. Thanks for the warning, though! Nobody’s mentioned that so far :)
It’s not like other keyboards are better, I know why they are pissed and while it is annoying, Thinkpads X, T and P series are great linix machines.
What I don’t like is soldered RAM. I got T490 after almost a decade of using X220, because it, at least, had one ram slot. Now I am rocking 48GB of ram in reliable hardware which os completely supported in linux (except bt having some issues, but still).
What issues are you having with BT? I recently bought a second hand T490 and Fedora with KDE has been great! I have not extensively used BT, but I always use a BT keyboard and it has been fine :)
Microphone on my headphones is not working, it is connecting but codec is off. It us not working with second parmir different manufacturer.
I got bt usb dongle and both work with it.
I don’t know if the problem is in kernel driver or bt deamon…
I’ve had to borrow computers with fn and ctrl swapped. I understand shat you mean
Hear me out. Go to the BIOS. Swap Left Ctrl and FN! Thanks me later :)
Thank you! It’s a bloody miracle!
I have X1 Carbon Gen 6 and I love the laptop overall, I’ve been using it for 4 years so far. I don’t mind having fn and ctrl swapped, but my keyboard has also a stupid placement of PrntScr. It’s on the bottom row, right to the space bar. I can’t count times when I accidentally opened spectacle 50 times, because I hold the wrong key.
I have also happened to have a try with some newer thinkpads and they felt like the company made them worse on purpose. The material felt cheap, keyboard choppy and the trackpad absolutely abysmal with its lack of precision.
With the hardware support under Linux… yeah, they do work, but when you pick a new model, expect some missing features, worse power management, quicker thermal throttling etc. For me it significantly improved over time. With 10yo refurbished thinkpads Linux is great though, they say
Funny, I seriously considered getting one over the past year, but the past couple of months I’ve been reading all kinds of complaints about them. Seems there is a problem with consistent quality.
Used Thinkpad from eBay is your best bet to start imo.
No question, excellent compatibility, will last you a while, you can get a nicer one once you get comfortable.
Spent $500 on this one to hold you over till you can afford a framework, or spend less, you can still get by with a decent one for $250 or so.
I agree, I have two Thinkpads, an older T450S that lives out in the shop for me to reference things, and my mainstay which is a T480S. If OP does want to do video editing or gaming or anything that might be more intensive, I also have had a Legion 5 and similarly had absolutely no problems with Linux on it.
I’m relatively happy with my System76, but based on your needs you could get a lot of value from a $500 used ThinkPad on Ebay.
I get a lot of value from my 150.00 ThinkPad T430s but then all I do is web browsing and occasionally compiling software on it so not exactly intensive things. It’s a basic machine. A ThinkPad T series closer to 500.00 would be very functional.
Yeah, I have a couple T420 ThinkPads, and for $100 they’re pretty sweet, but they show their age.
Ooo, what do you like about System76? I know they’re well respected, but I’d like to hear about it from somebody who actually uses the hardware, especially since Pop!_OS has caught my attention more than once
The main thing I like is the hardware support. I knew before purchasing that everything would work, and that helped me feel okay dropping a pretty penny on a new laptop. Besides that, I’d say they’re fine. They aren’t designing and manufacturing their own hardware (at least not back when I bought one); the laptops are pretty standard off-the-shelf stuff. System76 just promises that it’ll all work out-of-the-box. I’ve never used Pop!_OS, so I can’t speak to that. Arch and Debian work great, though.
The only negative I can think of is: once the battery started to go after several years, they didn’t have a replacement in their store, but because it’s a generic laptop, there were new ones available on Amazon. It just would’ve been nice to get it from System76.
All-in-all, I’m a happy customer. I’m keeping my eye on Framework, though. The MNT Reform is also interesting. I don’t like how thick it is, but that’s because it uses 18650s for the battery, which would solve the problem of buying a new battery just to find that all the batteries were manufactured at the same time, so there are no working replacements.
Their battery can be replaced with any battery? How to do that? Other manufacture OEM battery?
Ooo, good to know! It sucks they don’t offer hardware replacements on-site, but it’s good to know that they’re easy to find. And I doubt I’m going to be using Arch anytime soon (due to personal inexperience) but I would like to test Pop!_OS. Thank you for the detailed reply :D
FWIW, I have a galp5, and had a lot of stability issues with Pop. I used it for well over a year, as I thought using their own OS on the machine they sold me would give the best results. Ultimately I spent a lot of time opening support tickets, and trying to work around issues (desktop stuttering, crashes, touchpad randomly would stop responding, etc). I did not find their support team particularly helpful. I finally installed stock Ubuntu, and it’s been significantly more stable.
I don’t plan to buy from them again. If I were buying now, I’d be looking at Framework (probably their upcoming, larger model with the dedicated GPU).
My laptop still runs Ubuntu. But the 500 mb boot partition is basically now non functional and since I use luks on the main partition and hate snap I’m just strongly considering moving to pop. I also use an egpu quite frequently.
Ahh, I see. Well, what’s your experience with the hardware itself, then? Specifically the durability, weight, etc.
If you can you should try to savve up for a framework laptop
If you’re looking for a cheap but solid laptop, you can get some pretty good deals on Dell Refurbished. Click on Laptops at the top, then look for the 50% off codes at the top of the page.
Ooo, thanks! The site seems to have some really good deals :)
If you’re getting a Dell (or other laptops, but I know it’s fairly common in Dell laptops) try to avoid anything with AMD SmartShift. This feature is designed only for Windows and will cause problems with Linux.
I’ve been told of a pretty simple fix, so it’s not the end of the world, but if you can avoid it I would.
Ooo, nice! And I’ll keep the AMD SmartShift in mind
I have a Dell G15 5520 as my daily driver. It’s a 12th gen intel core i5-12500H with nvidia RTX 3050. I never even let it boot Windows. Booted straight off an Ubuntu USB and wiped the drive. Aside from some quibbles with Ubuntu itself (I hate that by default Firefox is a snap from the snap store), everything basically worked out of the box. The only real hurdle to jump is enabling the proprietary nvidia driver.
Dell has at times offered their laptops with Linux preinstalled. I’m not certain they have a current offering, but just about all of their models are well supported.
I’d say Framework, but I don’t think they have stuff under $1000 unfortunately.
I’ve never heard of framework so I’ll check them out, although it’s a bit unfortunate they might not have anything in my price range :( thanks regardless!
I’m fairly new to Linux, but I quickly learned that AMD based stuff is better for Linux.
Oh, really? I knew AMD was more popular among Linux users, but I never really made the connection that it was better, lol. Thanks!
nvidia drivers on linux is troublesome. They don’t support their own proprietary drivers well and don’t share with the devs working on open source ones. As expected, you end up with two different feature incomplete drivers and it’s a huge hassle.
iirc you should be fine with an intel or and cpu and it’s just the gpu you need to be careful with, but my experience is with an amd cpu and nvidia gpu so I may be wrong
I see. It sucks that proprietary stuff clashes so much with open source stuff but it’s not unexpected unfortunately :( thank you for this!
Oooooh yeah. I currently have an AMD video card and it’s heaven. No drivers problems, KDE Wayland works perfectly, it’s just absolutely awesome.
Ooo, nice!
I’m on my second Dell XPS 13 Developer laptop which comes with Ubuntu pre installed. I loved the first one but played too much Minecraft and wore out a couple of keys. I had it long enough that decent replacement keyboards were hard to find so I got a new laptop from the same line. I love the second one even more. My brother, also a Linux-using software professional, made the initial recommendation, so there is at least one other person who liked this line.
Love my XPS 13, runs fedora with no issues. Such a solid laptop. Also love my 4K screen
Ooo, nice! Although I don’t really want to use Ubuntu myself (nothing wrong with the distro itself, I’ve just tried others I like), the knowledge it’s Linux compatible is amazing!
I have two generations of XPS 15 running Linux without issue. You may need to disable secure boot depending on what distro you install, but beyond that everything works great 👍
I had an XPS 13 non developer for about 5 years. Ran any distro I threw at it. Upgraded to a frameworks last year though and not looking back. It’s all about that 3:2 display for me. The main thing I miss on the XPS is that it sipped power while suspended. I could leave it with the lid closed for a week unplugged and it would still be at 50% The framework 12th Gen is not so forgiving. If it sits in my bag all weekend it will be dead come Monday.
I’ve installed Linux on two Windows laptops:
- A 2019 Lenovo Yoga with an Intel CPU and Nvidia GPU. Kubuntu worked without any issue, aside from the Nvidia drivers being finicky. It also has a touchscreen with pen support, which works really well.
- A 2022 Asus Vivobook with an AMD CPU. Tried Fedora for this one and had tons of driver issues at first, but they eventually got patched.
So, I’d say that buying a Windows laptop and installing Linux on it is certainly viable, as long as you’re ready to do some amount of troubleshooting or waiting for driver updates. Oh, and keeping the Windows partition somehow (dual booting or w/e) can be handy for firmware updates.
Ahh, I figured that’d be a problem. Although it’s not make or break, it certainly is a bit annoying
I bought a new thinkpad t14 for $900. I have arch and windows 10 dual booted and it’s doing great
Ooo, nice! And despite this being a Linux only laptop knowing it works well dual booting is nice
Im happy with my ROG Zephyrus G14, which I only chose because of decent linux compatibility and a sale at Best Buy.
I would say when judging the price of a laptop, whether it is Windows focused or Linux focused, make your decision based off of mainly hardware specs (and that hardwares linux compatibility). For example (assuming same price), if a Windows laptop has a great AMD CPU and GPU, I would take that over a Linux laptop with an equivalent CPU but an NVIDIA GPU.
My best advice is to read posts / watch videos of people using / installing / reviewing Linux on said hardware before you buy it. For instance, Asus ROG laptops (like I have) require a program called asusctl to control certain aspects of the machine that are usually controlled by Asus’s proprietary software. I would not have known this if not for researching beforehand.
EDIT: I agree with another comment, used Thinkpads are awesome and usually old enough that there will be next to no compatibility issues with Linux. Also, they’re tanks!
Ooo, nice! And yeah, buying a laptop without knowing for sure Linux is compatible would be a very bad idea, lol. As for ThinkPads, I’m highly considering getting one simply because of the price point, but used/refurbished stuff can be a bit of a gamble if it’s from somebody who isn’t credible
A framework 100%. The lowest end diy should be right around $1000, probably lower if you buy the third party parts yourself. And it’ll save you a few hundred bucks when it’s time to upgrade. Also keep an eye on the refurbs in the marketplace, they’re out of stock rn but that might change.
I know you mentioned System76, but I thought an anecdote of the gazelle 15 I bought during covid would help.
It’s the 2021 model with a 10th-gen i5, 16GB DDR4 RAM, a cheap 256 nvme SSD, and a GTX 1660ti for $1300. Very good laptop that I’ve used the hell out of since then. Has an excellent 120hz IPS panel (1080p) that’s just buttery smooth, and using pop_os on it has been very stable, even with all their firmware updates including the switch to coreboot for their UEFI. Plays all the games I needed to when I was away from home, and the keyboard is one of the best I’ve typed on, on a laptop.
Now my only issue with it, is the shell, which was not entirely metal as I was led to believe. It’s got some pretty cheap plastic for the bottom side that feels like it will crack if dropped even from a short height. I THINK this has been changed in newer models though, as they were using rebranded Clevo laptops for their chassis. Still, I hate that it’s half nice brushed aluminum looking metal and half brittle plastic housing a VERY (at the time) expensive parts. It’s the only flaw
Does this change my mind on buying System76? No, because I’ve seen their newer stuff and it’s made leaps and bounds from my laptop in just a couple of years, and I absolutely plan on buying a beefier Oryx Pro or something on the future. They’re excellent Linux machines
If your on a budget, an older Thinkpad is a good choice. I picked up a X220 with a charger and spare battery off of Craiglist a year ago for $60.
Ended up going with Coreboot with a SeaBIOS payload and Debian OS.
I have enough money to buy a more modern Lenovo laptop, but I’m definitely considering getting one renewed simply because of how cheap it is. I’d prefer newer age specs tho. Thank you!
I also had one and not because of any money restriction. It’s just an amazing machine with a few tweaks and the CPU limitation are actually a plus since it will push you towards cli/tui and that’s where the fun begins
Ooo, nice! I’ve been meaning to learn more about cli/tui stuff, anyway. Thanks!
The x220 is quite easily the best laptop ever made imo, and I’ll never understand why they just don’t slap modern hardware into it and re-release it.
